Force feedback joystick

[13ifs40 5]

Good Morning all

 

     I am looking for a good force feedback joystick for Prepare3d V 5.      I was wondering what you folks would recommend 

 

I currently fly the PMDG 737 and 777    

 

thanks for your help in advance

 

13ifs40

[somiller 694]

What is your budget?

[13ifs40 5]

Whoops     forgot about that

 

unlimited        

[somiller 694]

I have a MS FFB II joystick that "works", and it is better than NOT having FFB, but that's about it.

I don't know if they work for P3Dv5, but you may want to look at Brunner yokes. https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss/produkt-uebersicht/

Have a look at this:

 

[LesOReilly 176]

Brunner uses Simconnect it works with P3D and MSFS ...  couple of of Sim users have it and they love it.... One day I will save up for one of these 🙂 ... and the pedals that do force feedback....

[somiller 694]

I'd really like to have their yoke and pedals. I think they'd be the ultimate for FFB.

[C2615 319]

One things to notice is PMDG doesn't provide data for FFB, and both 737 and 777 IRL have very different artificial feel than natual aerodynamic force load.

On 737 the elevator force are mostly provide by spring load, but harden with airspeed increase by an aritificial hydualic system, also some quite complex neutral shift system based on stab trim position, and mach trim system which also works at some low speed condition.

On 777, there is no neutral shift, so the yoke is always spring loaded back to one definite position, but would harden by FBW system when you closed to flight envelope protection.

Both plane's alirons are fully spring loaded without force change, the only thing that FFB would add is the aliron trim that changes the nertual position.

[13ifs40 5]

OK     so based on everything I have read, seen, or heard is there a market for force feedback controls?

 

[MarkJHarris 128]

OK. I actually have the Brunner controls. So, let's get down to basics. These are not Force Feedback units. They are Control Loading devices. Which means they function like the ones in real full flight simulators. And also why they are very expensive. Both motion and resistance to movement is controlled. No springs, just motors inside.

The Software is used to determine "feel" so that the yoke will behave like a Cessa or Boeing 737, or whatever you programme into it. It moves when on Autopilot, will vibrate or move under air load, etc. In Cessna mode, it falls forward and comes back with air load as you move down the runway, stiffens as you speed up and trims to a neutral feel in position, whereas in 737 mode it sits central, stiffens with speed and will return to central with neutral trim. The pedals again, kick over runway lights, and will sit offset with trim applied. Perfect for twins, etc.

I've only played a bit with mine, I'm still building the motion platform to mount them firmly, as the supplied platform was too flexy. Not got much time over Summer as back at work flying 90+ hour months (on 70% pay but that's another matter).....

 

They are the Rolls Royce of yokes, no question. As to the Joystick, that also is control loaded, they do one with an Airbus stick, which I find a bit confusing, because the one thing an Airbus sidestick doesn't do is give you any feedback!  

[13ifs40 5]

WOW

 

       that was a great review and very helpful            thanks so much for you input

 

13ifs40

[C2615 319]

 

On 9/21/2021 at 11:19 PM, MarkJHarris said:

They are the Rolls Royce of yokes, no question. As to the Joystick, that also is control loaded, they do one with an Airbus stick, which I find a bit confusing, because the one thing an Airbus sidestick doesn't do is give you any feedback!    

Bus sticks have one "feedback", it'll be soft locked in the center when AP is engaged, you'll need more force to overcome that lock, then AP will disengage and the stick moves free again.

Also the real buses' stick have much better spring and damper feeling than anything you could find on a desktop device under few kilo$

 

BTW, "They are the Rolls Royce of yokes, no question." somehow failed to impress me, for a second I was wondering what makes Rolls Royce more superior.... than say... General Electric or Pratt & Whitney 😂

Edited September 23, 2021 by C2615

[somiller 694]

4 hours ago, C2615 said:

BTW, "They are the Rolls Royce of yokes, no question." somehow failed to impress me, for a second I was wondering what makes Rolls Royce more superior.... than say... General Electric or Pratt & Whitney 😂

Cars, think cars. I've driven a R/R and know exactly what he means.

Mark,

Thanks for the review...and the rest of us know exactly what you mean by "They are the Rolls Royce of yokes, no question", and tells me all I need to know when deciding whether I want one of these yokes. I've been curious since I first heard of them, but was NOT impressed with most reviews as it seemed the reviewers didn't really understand the software and setup.

Next couple $1000 I have free to blow on simming is going to buy one these yokes.

[MarkDH 234]

1 hour ago, somiller said:

I've been curious since I first heard of them, but was NOT impressed with most reviews as it seemed the reviewers didn't really understand the software and setup.

Well, you can't know if they didn't understand the software or if the software just wasn't that good! I'm still not sufficiently convinced to spend £2K on one of these until I could read or hear something very detailed about the software. Specifically, how the yoke can be programmed to interact with the simulator at the required level of detail. Someone here or in another thread has said it can respond to gusts and wind shear, turbulence, etc., which is encouraging but also that that requires X-Plane. For me it would need to be able to do this in MSFS (or to be fair, MSFS needs to have the capability). My only experiments with FFB in FSX required FS Force, which was a very crude program that only simulated two 'real' effects, the moving centre position for setting elevator trim and increasing firmness with speed (which had the consequence of drooping the elevators at low speed, as someone mentioned here). it also added a few special effects, such as ground rumble and yanking the yoke to denote turns on the ground. These features don't add up to £2K in my estimation.

[somiller 694]

5 hours ago, MarkDH said:

Well, you can't know if they didn't understand the software or if the software just wasn't that good! I'm still not sufficiently convinced to spend £2K on one of these until I could read or hear something very detailed about the software. Specifically, how the yoke can be programmed to interact with the simulator at the required level of detail. Someone here or in another thread has said it can respond to gusts and wind shear, turbulence, etc., which is encouraging but also that that requires X-Plane. For me it would need to be able to do this in MSFS (or to be fair, MSFS needs to have the capability). My only experiments with FFB in FSX required FS Force, which was a very crude program that only simulated two 'real' effects, the moving centre position for setting elevator trim and increasing firmness with speed (which had the consequence of drooping the elevators at low speed, as someone mentioned here). it also added a few special effects, such as ground rumble and yanking the yoke to denote turns on the ground. These features don't add up to £2K in my estimation.

Maybe attention to detail isn't your thing. I said "it seemed...", I didn't say "I know they didn't understand".

MarkH How does a yoke respond to gusts, wind shear and turbulence in a real aircraft?

When the EXPERIENCE of this guy: "B737NG Pilot. Ex Q400, BAe146, ATP and Flying Instructor in the dim and distant past! Now on Furlough possibly till next year...... " tells me it's the best, I find that to be more reliable info. than the OPINION of: "Almost Aviator".

[MarkDH 234]

7 hours ago, somiller said:

Maybe attention to detail isn't your thing

That's my favourite part 😃

Oh well, it's your £2K, so you'll get what you deserve.