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Geofa

I don't want to sound ungrateful, but..........

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>>"If it were me in their shoes, I'd have given up and gone>home a while ago.">>>>Mike T wrote: >Really? You'd give up your six figure salary>and MS stock options because your feelings were hurt?>>I don't think so.>>Regards,>>Mike T.>>>Give it a break Mike. There is no requirement for Aces folks>to be a doormat for the kind of vitrol shown in this and other>posts in order to keep their jobs. >We've all been here long enough to know that Phil, Hal, and>others don't even have to show up. >Aces team reaches out to keep folks informed and in turn they>get hammered by everyone with an "axe to grind".>>The mindset of some here seems to be that folks like Aces are>"fair game"...an absolutely ludicrous way to handle any issue>and certainly adds nothing in the way of solutions.>>That's my opinion, add .75 cents and it'll get you a cup of>coffee:-)>>>>So true Ron. I wonder how many people would have the guts to say some of these things to their faces. It's too easy to be rude and objectionable behind the anonymity of the net and a keyboard. I've probably been guilty of it as well.After this little experiment, I wonder if the ACES team would retreat to their previous closed envirnment, I know I probably would.Chris Porter:-outta

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>This whole thread is pretty unbelievable. I must say I'm>amazed at how well Phil has handled this unruly crowd and>posted detailed information on his blog. Is anyone reading it,>or is it just too much fun to grouse?...I'm not sure I can continue to be as gracious as Phil has>been. We know we have let many people down and we are trying>to correct that with SP1. I'm sure most users would rather get>SP1 as quickly as possible and that is part of the delay>getting DX10 support out. Wouldn't you rather have a general>perf improvment and other fixes before we deliver DX10 for the>very small minority of folks that are running Vista and have a>DX10 card? I know I would.>>And for those that say to wait 5-8 years between versions, if>we did that FSX would be the last of the line. If you don't>want a new version every 3 years (or whatever it takes us to>build it), then don't buy it. I'm not sure the extra 50 bucks>is worth the aggrevation for everyone else (of course the>marketing guy might feel differently).>>Mr Adamson, I do hope you will continue to post on other>forums that are less hostile (we monitor and post in many of>them).>>Oh yeah, to the anti warplane poster. Racing Mustangs don't>carry guns. They're just to heavy and induce a lot of drag.>Although I don't have any problem with warbirds anyway...Well said P-12C, and thanks, a little reality check was well overdue.Cheers,Chris Porter:-outtaPerthWestern Australia

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>Dennis, I think you're not considering that Aces and>Microsoft are not small add-on vendors. They are fully>capable of conducting and managing multiple work streams in>parallel, especially if one of those is an anticipated revenue>generator. This isn't the case of 2 guys in a basement, where>they have to choose to either work on a service pack or build>the new product. >>I also think that at some point, "fixes" to both real and>perceived problems in FSX can be better addressed with a>larger market share, and some updates may even be embedded in>new products (a la LOMAC). A much better business case can>probably be made to spend more resources on service packs,>when you have a broader customer and revenue base. You said, "I also think that at some point, "fixes" to both real and>perceived problems in FSX can be better addressed with a>larger market share". I'm wondering how market share is an issue when Microsoft Flight Simulator is virtually the only flight simulator available? I realize there is X Plane. But my sense is that they are not in direct competition with MS Flight Simulator.If you simply meant that they might increase the number of orders for FSX, rather than take a particular "market share" away from someone else, then your comments make sense to me.Dewey

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""I'm not sure I can continue to be as gracious as Phil has been. We know we have let many people down and we are trying to correct that with SP1. I'm sure most users would rather get SP1 as quickly as possible and that is part of the delay getting DX10 support out. Wouldn't you rather have a general perf improvment and other fixes before we deliver DX10 for the very small minority of folks that are running Vista and have a DX10 card? I know I would.""Most certainly, so would I. Couldn't agree with you more about SP1.However, I don't find this thread "pretty unbelievable" at all.May I remind you why threads like these even exists ?It has nothing to do with the product itself (nobody in his right mind expects a SW product to be perfect and bug-free), but everything with the way it's being promoted and marketed.Allthough I personally do very much appreciate your design team's effort to solve technical issues, MS' marketing statements like "designed for Vista/DX10" (or whatever wording is used) or (quoted from the DVD-box) "Works even better on the upcoming Windows Vista" has raised a level of expectation for FSX that you, as a technician, should not be comfortable with.So, please, don't blame the posters here, but blame your sales department that have created this Vista/DX10 hype around FSX.Regards, Rob Barendregt

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>Ron:>>You give it a break, if Phil, Hal and the other's don't show>up because many are upset with the product they delivered so>be it. What you call vitrol some see as a legitimate gripe.>>You seem to be of the opinion that we should shut up and>accept what we get so we don't make Aces mad at us. You seem>to have it backwards. If THEY don't get their act together>its OUR dollars that they don't get. I'm not paying for the>privilige of having someone to talk to me and make me feel>good...I have a dog for that.>>I don't see any posts attacking anyone in Redmond personally. >The perception that FSX is substandard is just as vaild as FSX>being the greatest thing since ******* walked the earth. >>The Aces team is working on the problem and it is more than>fair to leave them alone to do their work but in the world,>outside the FS Community, do you really think that a game that>only half the audience can use 6 MONTHS after its release>wouldn't have end-users burning the developers in effigy? >>If you think that we're being unfair, you might want to take a>peek at the Nvidia or Creative Labs forums...it would seem>their efforts have been substandard too.>>I'll take that cup of coffee now! :-)>>Sheesh. I have few questions for you Mike...A) Do you and others REALLY think that 6 months of p***ing and moaning along with threats to Aces Members/Microsoft REALLY CHANGE the dynamic of the tasks the Aces Members/Microsoft have before them.:( Do you and others REALLY think that Aces Members/Microsoft are the least bit intimidated by the garbage that is thrown at them?Having personally met, and dined with, not a few of the Aces Studio staff, I can assure you that they are some of finest folks you could want to meet...In addition to their unquestioned character, it should be realized by the "rant crowd" that Aces are about the business of FSX SP1 along with other tasks, not sitting on their hands...Finally, efforts to keep folks informed about progress on a number of fronts should NEVER be treated with such disrespect as is shown in your and others posts...I'll gladly buy the coffee when you give this stuff a break:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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> Chris wrotez: So true Ron. I wonder how many people would have the guts to say some of these things to their faces. It's too easy to be rude and objectionable behind the anonymity of the net and a keyboard. I've probably been guilty of it as well.After this little experiment, I wonder if the ACES team would retreat to their previous closed envirnment, I know I probably would.Chris PorterUnfortunately these types of threads happen because folks are not held accountable for their words and actions in a public forum like they would be standing face to face with another party.In my opinion, many who revel in this trash would sing quite a different tune if they were to be confronted with the folks they've been attacking in forums.:-)Oh, I know they will spew here that what they write they would say to someones face...but it would be interesting to set up a secret recording device for the mentinoed confrontation...just to see who is honest, and who is not:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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Well my recommendation is not to lock or delete posts that go south, unless they are nasty or likely to head that way quickly from the get go (like this one), rather just chop out imflamatory replies. There is often much valuable information and suggestions that would otherwise go astray. Give errant users their one stike then ban them if they continue on. Gary


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>Bob,>>I 100% agree, but the idea that the avidly angry are>somehow worse than the avidly supportive, when they're>both pulling on the same rope, is ridiculous.Why characterize anyone as "avidly" supportive or "avidly" angry? What about gray areas in between?RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case


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Tom, please don't attempt to derive somebodies level of intelligence about this sim based on the number of posts that they make, or the number of months they have been around. You would be surprised by how many people read posts more than they make them. I would imagine most people spend hours reading posts, and then only make one or two posts of their own. I guess we are more inclined to listen than to talk all the time. To be quite honest, I usually read about 100 posts per evening, and then only type out 1 or 2 posts of my own depending on how much time I have. As far as how long I have been around, I bought FS9 over a year and half ago, and I started coming to these forums around the same time.Based on what I have read in these forums, there is a very small percentage of people who are happy with FSX. In fact, I would guess that the majority of the people in these forums can't even play FSX on their system. Glad to hear you enjoy the sim, but most of us do not. That is where my thinking is coming from.

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I guess our assumptions about ACES have got us in trouble over the last several months1) Why did we assume that ACES would develop a playable FSX on current hardware2) Why did we assume that ACES would have a DX10 patch out to us when Vista was released3) Why did we assume that ACES was actually developing this game to run best in Windows Vista with DX10 graphicsI guess I agree with you, we shouldn't assume anything about ACES in the future. The obvious isn't all that obvious. Your post is well taken though. You may be right about ACES not doing all the work on the Adrenaline expansion pack. I just want my little DX10 patch, that's all. It is very frustrating for all of us. Including ACES.

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I'd suggest you look at the avsim survey which has 3808 responses-quite a large number.1) 68.5% rated their experience good or better2) 77.3% rated the improvements over fs9 good or better3) 63.3% said they would recommend fsx to a friend4) 40.7% said their frame rates were good or betterLooks to me like most are happy (#1), most consider it an improvement over fs9 (2), most would recommend it to a friend #(3)and most would like much better frame rates (4). Is there anyone who would not like better frame rates? Is that not one of the reasons Aces are putting out sp1?So when you say most most are not happy with fsx, and the majority don't play it on their system it is not backed by the stats-at least on this site.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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I really appreciate the last several posts that have been made. I agree with you that you should fix FSX with an SP1 patch before you do much of anything else so people who can't upgrade to a new computer to run vista can still play FSX.I am one of the frustrated people in these forums. I have never personally insulted anyone from ACES or Microsoft. I do not believe in any grand conspiracy theories. I am just so frustrated because my plans for FSX have been completely dashed. I was hoping to build my first PC about this time with all the great new components to run Vista and DX10 for the simple purpose of playing FSX. I will play other DX10 games in the future when they are released, but I knew we were going to have FSX running best on Vista with DX10 graphics as soon as Vista comes out.Now that Vista is out, I come to find out that FSX doesn't actually run any better on Vista than XP. I also find out it won't recieve it's DX10 patch until the Holiday season of this year. Wow, talk about your plans being completely dashed. This is why I am so frustrated.I know you guys at ACES will get this all done someday. I know FSX will be a great flight sim just like FS9 is today. But, I thought I would try to explain why I am so frustrated about this whole situation. I feel like I have got caught up in some hype-show where I am the guy looking like the idiot chasing his own tail.

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Might I suggest then that you try looking at things with a slightly different perspective?Think instead of the money you're saving by not having to run out and spend the excessivly high price for a 1st generation DX10 video card! Now, you can simply wait until the 2nd or perhaps 3rd generation DX10 hardware is released, drivers have been updated and optimized, etc.Also, keep saving at the same rate for the "future upgrade," and by the time it's needed you'll have enough set aside for a real "killer system!" ;)


Fr. Bill    

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<<"designed for Vista/DX10">>That means exactly what it says, that it will run on Vista (I don't believe we ever said it would run better on Vista). What that means in more detail is that it works within the confines of the LUA/UAC account restrictions (apps can only write to certain directories while running within a user account), supports integration with the new Vista Game Explorer, attempts to play nice with Aero Glass (although, since Vista wasn't done yet when we released, there does seem to be an issue here and the Vista QFE folks are working on a fix for an issue or two related to that), etc. That's all that statement means. The rest of this message relates to statements made here on AVSim in general, not Rob's specific message that I replied to.Seems quite a few of the "didn't meet my expectation" messages I've seen is folks either reading more into what we said than what we actually said, or basing their expectations on what others said they expected, not what we said we would deliver.As to the "Said DX10 patch would be released when Vista came out", we never said that, we said it would be released at some point after Vista was released. One of the requirements for working on the DX10 patch is both DX10 hardware and matching video drivers that work, while the nVidia hardware has been out since late Oct or Nov, their Vista drivers are only now getting to the point where they are usable, so how exactly could we have had the DX10 patch available when Vista was released (believe me, we don't have any magic DX10 hardware or drivers that aren't available to the rest of you, much as we would like to :-> ).As to the complaints about we shouldn't be wasting our efforts making addons when SP1 isn't done yet, there's only a very small team working on the expansion pack (me for one :-> ), and some of those have been spending some of their time working on SP1 issues before moving on to their assigned expansion pack areas, and for things like new missions, the mission designer types didn't really have any SP1 related work, so having them work on new stuff isn't holding back the Service Pack at all.Granted, some of the SP1 work has pushed the DX10 release back some, but as P-12C said, it made more sense to put those resources to work on the update that would benefit the most people first, since the percentage of our user base that has both DX10 hardware/working drivers and Vista is much smaller than the percentage of our user base that can benefit from SP1 (presumably that would be 100% :-> ).

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