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abrams_tank

So World Update 6 is what Sim Update 5 should have been?

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5 minutes ago, cobalt said:

I did NOT see pop-ins, period. There was NO dumbing down of graphics for me, period. I am not denying your story; please do not try to tell me what I saw. Moreover, there were a number of others that also reported increased performance with no loss of graphics after SU5. Why some people think what THEY see has to be universal, I don't understand. But there is a word for this: arrogance.

There's a word for you; Naive. Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there. Do you work for Asobo? Because they're the only ones with such naivety as you're showing here!

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9 minutes ago, cobalt said:

I did NOT see pop-ins, period. There was NO dumbing down of graphics for me, period. I am not denying your story; please do not try to tell me what I saw. Moreover, there were a number of others that also reported increased performance with no loss of graphics after SU5. Why some people think what THEY see has to be universal, I don't understand. But there is a word for this: arrogance.

I did not see pop-ins either in SU5, based on my normal usage patterns.  However, when I tried to recreate the pop-ins deliberately by going to the external view of the plane and quickly using my hatswitch to view completely different directions, I could finally see the pop-ins people were referring to.  But I had to actively go out of my way to try to find the pop-ins that people were mentioning.

If I didn't actively go out of my way to find the pop-ins, based on my normal usage patterns, I wouldn't have noticed them in SU5. So for me at least, the pop-ins never bothered me.  Of course, I don't use VR so maybe it's different with VR (but do people in VR really snap their neck back and forth to view different directions that fast?).

I can say that I have kept the pre-cache terrain slider to "medium" after WU6, which is equivalent to how SU5 performed.  So I liked how Asobo implemented the culling and pop-ins in SU5 - it was just right for me.

Edited by abrams_tank

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https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/bug-logged-aa-downgrade-since-su5-in-game-not-menus-overlays/433004

 

Further proof of SU5 downgrade alongside the AA of menus (VR), if people don't notice the downgrades that's fine, good or you. But to continually deny they exist in the first place like Cobalt above is incredibly naive.


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Let's review the bidding here. Following the installation of SU5 I immediately saw an improvement in performance to a nearly universal 50-60 FPS with Ultra settings. I do not personally observe any pop-ins, even on panning, or any other kind of degradation in the graphics. I do not deny that you, or others, see them, but I DO NOT. If that makes me naive in your view, so be it. I've been called worse. Better to be naive than obnoxious.

Edited by cobalt
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On 9/8/2021 at 6:19 PM, Noel said:

To get the kind of pause-free, completely smooth animation, yes for flying the NGXu into KSFO-HD in Orbx NCA scenery with settings cranked anywhere near highest, completely unable to maintain the minimum 30.

Come on Noel, that was the 2017-era old version you flew.  I get smoothness and fps with both MSFS and P3D.  I can't remember the last time I got a stutter in either sim.   Aren't things great now?


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1 hour ago, cobalt said:

Let's review the bidding here. Following the installation of SU5 I immediately saw an improvement in performance to a nearly universal 50-60 FPS with Ultra settings. I do not personally observe any pop-ins, even on panning, or any other kind of degradation in the graphics. I do not deny that you, or others, see them, but I DO NOT. If that makes me naive in your view, so be it. I've been called worse. Better to be naive than obnoxious.

On 9/9/2021 at 2:27 AM, cobalt said:

Dumbed-down graphics? You cannot be serious. The graphics are nothing short of astounding, and light years beyond any other sim. I am accustomed to seeing almost anything in the forums, but this must set some sort of record for absurdity.

I'll just leave this quote from you on the previous page here; I rest my case.


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40 minutes ago, MarcG said:

I'll just leave this quote from you on the previous page here; I rest my case.

And I stand by that post. "Dumbing-down" is a phrase implying a deliberate reduction in graphics quality, which, if it had been done, would have been apparent to everybody. The fact that many of us did not see any reduction in graphics, even though others did, rules out any such deliberate intent. Yes, there were problems for some, but "dumbing-down", absolutely not. That idea is absurd.

 

Edited by cobalt
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On 9/8/2021 at 6:13 PM, hanhamreds said:

Sure is, the old engine was never ready for VR. Unfortunately Asobo got bullied into implementing it by the vocal few, and they in turn got their fingers burnt - ha!

Asobo implemented VR because they were very passionate and huge fans of VR.

Did you not watch or listen to any Asobo VR development videos?

It was clearly stated most of the Asobo staff could not wait to bring their VR devices to work for the WIP VR implementation back then.

They were clearly already experienced and very knowledgeable VR users.

It seems you just like to believe in your personal assumptions and run with them as fact.🤣

I would post the videos...but for what? You seem pretty confident in your assumptions here.🙃

Edited by blueshark747

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On 9/8/2021 at 8:26 PM, VFXSimmer said:

What are you talking about?  The sim runs great in VR too.  Getting much better FPS with amazing visuals than I ever did with the other guys - esp once you loaded them up with addons in an attempt to look as good.

Bit I would hold off if I were you.  You might not be able to handle it…

I love that user's narrative.

Asobo were "bullied" into implementing VR.

Could you imagine the overall mood and environment at the Asobo office that day?

*Top Microsoft bean counter barges in Asobo office with several boxes of clunky VR headsets*

"That's it everyone stop what you are doing...the flightsim community demands VR and will not buy the product without it!"

"Everyone throw these VR headsets on NOW and make it happen pronto!"

*Asobo employees nervously nod in agreement fumbling with the clunky VR tech they are totally unfamiliar with, trying to figure out where to even start with stereoscopic 3d implementation and 6 DOF tracking into the 2d MSFS alpha build*🤣😂

Edited by blueshark747

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30 minutes ago, cobalt said:

And I stand by that post. "Dumbing-down" is a phrase implying a deliberate reduction in graphics quality, which, if it had been done, would have been apparent to everybody. The fact that many of us did not see any reduction in graphics, even though others did, rules out any such deliberate intent. Yes, there were problems for some, but "dumbing-down", absolutely not. That idea is absurd.

 

#Facepalm, nice trolling see'ya

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2 hours ago, Mace said:

Come on Noel, that was the 2017-era old version you flew.  I get smoothness and fps with both MSFS and P3D.  I can't remember the last time I got a stutter in either sim.   Aren't things great now?

I guess maybe it was--v4.5x was as far as I went w/ P3D as I wanted to see how MSFS was going to be before forking over more cash to LM.  It was too taxing for my system but I made peace with it by dusk to dawn flights only, when I used it in the past year.  Very nice to have ultra smooth animation and turning graphic detail way down including disabling Orbx NCA was what it took.  Fortunately in the wee hours you can't see the scenery enough anyway, so it works great for me.  Never saw it so smooth in all my years of P3D and that includes taxiing in the NGXu and also AI planes were totally smooth as well, and of course the nice 3rd party airports often look great in dusk/dawn times.  Road traffic and jetway animations were always herky jerky no matter a solid fluid frame rate.

Edited by Noel

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18 hours ago, blueshark747 said:

Asobo implemented VR because they were very passionate and huge fans of VR.

Did you not watch or listen to any Asobo VR development videos?

It was clearly stated most of the Asobo staff could not wait to bring their VR devices to work for the WIP VR implementation back then.

They were clearly already experienced and very knowledgeable VR users.

It seems you just like to believe in your personal assumptions and run with them as fact.🤣

I would post the videos...but for what? You seem pretty confident in your assumptions here.🙃

😂

 

not going to get into a stupid argument here, the facts are there though. They never intended to implement VR when the Seattle event was broadcast - and the SIM was clearly not ready for it anyway.

things have changed since and personally I would like to see how VR performs now.

regarding assumptions - you seem to be making all of them.

Edited by hanhamreds

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49 minutes ago, hanhamreds said:

😂

 

not going to get into a stupid argument here, the facts are there though. They never intended to implement VR when the Seattle event was broadcast - and the SIM was clearly not ready for it anyway.

things have changed since and personally I would like to see how VR performs now.

regarding assumptions - you seem to be making all of them.

You two are actually both correct.  KVR was NOT planned from the start, Jorg in fact states that specifically and that it was VR enthusiasts who suggested they incorporate it into the sim.

It is ALSO true however, that once they had it setup in their test suite it was an instant hit and quite a few of them became die hard advocates (esp Jorg himself).  We have insight into all of this from quite a few interviews, blogs, and other promotional material at the time.  I fly exclusively with it and did so in Xplane so I was acutely aware of every scrap of info on the subject as it was coming out.

History is history.  What’s pertinent now Hanhamreds is that core design or not, VR does run really well even now.  You should give it a go.  There are still things to address such as by controller support, some oddness with the z-depth of the mouse pointer, and others, but the good easily outweighs the bad IMO.

Edited by VFXSimmer
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14 hours ago, hanhamreds said:

😂

 

not going to get into a stupid argument here, the facts are there though. They never intended to implement VR when the Seattle event was broadcast - and the SIM was clearly not ready for it anyway.

things have changed since and personally I would like to see how VR performs now.

regarding assumptions - you seem to be making all of them.

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I keep hearing people say the core sim was/is not ready for VR and how poorly VR runs in MSFS.  I personally think VR runs quite well in MSFS.  On my less than high end system (I7 @5Ghz, RTX 2070 Super) I get very acceptable performance using a Reverb G2 and would not consider flying outside of VR in MSFS.  My only gripe is the VR experience is somewhat worse now than it was as of SU4.  Now in cockpit menus (like ATC menu
) have terrible aliasing and look like they are from the days of Nintendo NES.  Ant-aliasing in general has taken a huge step backwards since SU5, and overall lighting and color saturation is much worse now.  None of these issues are the result of the core sim being "not ready for VR" as they were not present prior to SU5 (XBox compatibility update).

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