4k 60hz to 1440p 144hz..WOW

[swiesma 625]

Just now, iFlySimX said:

Do you run MSFS unlimited in FPS?

 

Normally I limit it to 60 FPS. As you can see in the screenshot more than 60 FPS is  not achievable most of the time. 
Except for the menus, they still run with 500 FPS -.-

[Noel 4,487]

• Nope, I look at instruments, straight ahead, to either side, but largely yes it's a cone of vision forward during TO, as I do riding a motorcycle.  I don't typically look 90 degrees left during takeoff.  So no, tunnel vision is a poor description of what I do, but you twisted it to make your point I understand. 
• I don't use TrackIR, so my perspective is based on looking at a curved 34" ultra wide format screen, with a viewing distance of about 28".  At this range, looking for example at a building on the ground at 2000' elevation, that building at a rate of speed of say 200k moves less than one pixel per frame at 30fps.  This is largely the issue in the entire experience, and it's only more so the higher you go.  Even at TO speeds on the ground looking 100' ahead, the change is down to a pixel or two per frame, which you can't perceive on a curved 34" UW screen.  
• I said perception is different for different people, and also said I feel for people who require 60FPS, and I do.  On the ground, at a very busy terminal in something like the 787-10, in weather, with an LOD of 300+, a huge amount of air traffic in the vicinity, maintaining 60FPS isn't practical.  Now bring in PMDG 737NG.  Yep, very glad to NOT NEED 60FPS to have liquid smooth flight.  Once more, this is why many with the highest end hardware have no problem at 30FPS.
• Perceptual differences aside, were YOU to view my 34" screen from 28", I'd give you 4:1 odds against being able to perceive the difference, in normal flight operations, between 30 and 60FPS.  Looking out the side in this screen shot, at the red rectangle, the buildings you're seeing move less than 1 pixel per frame at 30FPS.  Of course viewing out the side enhances motion, and you can't perceive 1 pixel change at 28", no one can.   At 60FPS you're at .47 pixels per frame.  

Edited September 13, 2021 by Noel

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

3 minutes ago, iFlySimX said:

Would love to see your specs

i10900K 5.2ghz water cooled.

3090 

64gb ram. 

[psolk 3,037]

55 minutes ago, psolk said:

You may look straight ahead.  I really very heavily on my peripheral vision whereas you are describing tunnel vision.  Yes, in tunnel vision 30 vs 60 fps is probably less noticeable.  Especially on a 5k using TrackiR the difference in peripheral vision is noticeable to me at 30 vs 60fps.  We also all have different visual perception levels so one may not see the difference as acutely as someone with higher visual perception.  That's not math, to your point not everyone's perception is the same, some people do not see the same level of detail as others, there is a visual perception eye test usually given to children to identify this.  To your point, yes your perspective is key.  

Just to expand on this I give track walks quite often at the race track.  One of the things I always speak about is getting your eyes up as far as possible and how often new students focus on the nose of their own car whereas the top drivers are already looking for  the "next" reference marker.  At my home track the final turn is a very fast right hander onto the the straight, top drivers take it flat, novices tend to lift.  They biggest difference between those that lift and those that don't is their focus point visually.  If you are looking at the outside curb or the inside curb your eyes are looking right over the nose of your car and 95% of the time they lift.  The top drivers know there is a Flag pole ~ 3/4 of the way down the straight and before we even hit turn 12 our eyes are already on the flagpole down the track. I can't even count the amount of times I've been giving a track walk and the students didn't even know the flagpole was there.  It's all about your perception, peripheral vision and processing.  

Top drivers also don't look for a braking point, a brake marker is variable their eyes are already hundreds of meters ahead for the "end of braking" point.   Novice rivers are incessantly focused on looking for a brake point so their eyes are looking away from the upcoming corner and they overslow.   

Point being, yes, people can look at the same thing and process everything they are seeing very differently.  I also do Batak training and have a liteboxer in my basement so I truly work at this... 

Why do you look at a cone of vision on a motorcycle, that is indeed tunnel vision, it's about taking in the relevant information but I think we may be saying the same thing here...  The bike follows the eyes, you should be focused on where you want to go and utilizing peripheral vision for scanning relevant information while looking through your line of sight to where you want to end up not where you are going....  

Edited September 13, 2021 by psolk

[iFlySimX 748]

8 minutes ago, swiesma said:

Normally I limit it to 60 FPS. As you can see in the screenshot more than 60 FPS is  not achievable most of the time. 
Except for the menus, they still run with 500 FPS -.-

Do you limit via NVIDIA?

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

Stick TrackIR on that setup above you have there, and you’ll notice the 30fps… so, without trackIR, it’s probably fine, for you, like you say. For me, no chance 

[Noel 4,487]

Bottom line as I sign off of this thread, dedicated to those who live on the bleeding edge (that is, really can't sustain 60FPS w/ the sim fully maxed out graphically in the most complex scenarios in teh most complex airplanes everywhere on the planet):  4:1 odds you'd not be able able to tell the difference in a double-blinded test at 3440x1440 at 28" between 30 and 60fps, in NORMAL flight operations, w/o doing your cheerleader's articial maneuver to tell the difference between 30 and 120Hz .  Bye bye, over and out

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

5 minutes ago, Noel said:

4:1 odds you'd not be able able to tell the difference in a double-blinded test at 3440x1440 at 28" between 30 and 60fps, in NORMAL flight operations, w/o doing your cheerleader's articial maneuver to tell the difference between 30 and 120Hz .  Bye bye, over and out

Wrong. Just cause you can’t, doesn’t mean others can’t. I could spot it straight away, guaranteed. Goodbye. 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

6 minutes ago, Noel said:

w/o doing your cheerleader's articial maneuver

Fly a fighter jet, or aerobatic plane. Nothing cheerleading about it. 

[ckyliu 1,749]

3 hours ago, psolk said:

Thank you... Understood everything up until the Freesync/GSync, that is net new to me.  This is 5120x1440 so actually asking less of my GPU/CPU than my old 4096x2160 monitor.  It allows for 5k @60hz performance in MSFS with a 2080ti and i9.  

Back to GSync/Freesync, GSync is Nvidia correct?  Is there anything that has to be enabled in the driver or in the sim or is it all automagically happening LOL.

Thank you for the information!  

Ah you didn't mention it was a superwide monitor! (usually when people say 4K or 2160p without further clarification it is assumed they mean 16:9 aspect ratio). You are right, the new monitor is 7.4 MP, the old one is 8.8 MP. Gsync is proprietary nVidia technology, and Freesync is licence-free ATI/AMD. You need both monitor and graphics card to be capable of the sync, and it then needs enabling in the graphics control panel and possibly your game settings too. Unfortunately I cannot be more specific as I don't have the budget for such high end hardware! I see you've managed to get it sorted anyway, I'm glad I could help a little bit 🙂

Edited September 13, 2021 by ckyliu

[Noel 4,487]

39 minutes ago, psolk said:

Why do you look at a cone of vision on a motorcycle, that is indeed tunnel vision, it's about taking in the relevant information but I think we may be saying the same thing here...  The bike follows the eyes, you should be focused on where you want to go and utilizing peripheral vision for scanning relevant information while looking through your line of sight to where you want to end up not where you are going....  

Please--I'm a skilled, seasoned rider w/ a perfect safety record.  My brother who has close to a million miles on motorcycles early on in my riding career advised me to be certain to look out far ahead while at the same time being aware of peripheral visual inputs.   That is one of the most important things one can learn as a rider.   In an airplane, where TO speeds are much higher, it's even more important to put the tip of that cone out even farther, while at the same time staying aware of peripheral visual inputs.  Let me try again, over and out 🤣

Edited September 13, 2021 by Noel

[psolk 3,037]

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

Please--I'm a skilled, seasoned rider w/ a perfect safety record.  My brother who has close to a million miles on motorcycles early on in my riding career advised me to be certain to look out far ahead while at the same time being aware of peripheral visual inputs.   That is one of the most important things one can learn as a rider.   In an airplane, where TO speeds are much higher, it's even more important to put the tip of that cone out even farther, while at the same time staying aware of peripheral visual inputs.  Let me try again, over and out 🤣

I thought we were saying the same thing here...  Yes, despite your 4:1 odds  to me my peripheral vision becomes even more sensitive the further the tip of the cone goes. My visual perception is very aware of the difference between 30fps and 60fps.  I notice a micro-stutter.  Sorry but I do.  To your other point that's why I stuck with FS9 for year after FSX was released and even with P3D I limit my flights to airports I can get 60FPS and dial down some visual acuity to get it at more demanding scenery, in MSFS it hasn't been an issue.  To each their own, over and out.

[Nyxx 6,993]

2 hours ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Stick TrackIR on that setup above you have there, and you’ll notice the 30fps… so, without trackIR, it’s probably fine, for you, like you say. For me, no chance 

and there it is....... looking without it, yer 30 can be fine, move your head around like you would IRL with TrackIR and you need a min of 40 FPS thats what I set to with 120Hz and 1/3 refreash in the sim. If I use 30 the sim is a mess. You can talk all you like but Track IR shows whats really smooth or not.

If I load the sim and use mouse look then yer 30 is fine. Because your not asking the sim to move smoothly with your head.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Nyxx

[Nyxx 6,993]

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Bottom line as I sign off of this thread, dedicated to those who live on the bleeding edge (that is, really can't sustain 60FPS w/ the sim fully maxed out graphically in the most complex scenarios in teh most complex airplanes everywhere on the planet):  4:1 odds you'd not be able able to tell the difference in a double-blinded test at 3440x1440 at 28" between 30 and 60fps, in NORMAL flight operations, w/o doing your cheerleader's articial maneuver to tell the difference between 30 and 120Hz .  Bye bye, over and out

Please Noel stop talking silly.  

Before you carry on, Buy TrackIR then eat humble pie.

All I need is to use my mouse on the deaktop to know what HZ my screen is at 60/120/240.

30Hz....🙄 no...

Edited September 13, 2021 by Nyxx

[swiesma 625]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Bottom line as I sign off of this thread, dedicated to those who live on the bleeding edge (that is, really can't sustain 60FPS w/ the sim fully maxed out graphically in the most complex scenarios in teh most complex airplanes everywhere on the planet):  4:1 odds you'd not be able able to tell the difference in a double-blinded test at 3440x1440 at 28" between 30 and 60fps, in NORMAL flight operations, w/o doing your cheerleader's articial maneuver to tell the difference between 30 and 120Hz .  Bye bye, over and out

The „bleeding edge“ - I bought my first 4K TV around 6 years ago. My first 4K monitor 3 years ago. 
 

I ask myself if I am living on the bleeding edge or you are living in Stone Age.