Xplane Next Generation (FSexpo)

[abrams_tank 7,397]

4 minutes ago, GoranM said:

Does MSFS use physics based lighting?  The lighting looks vastly different in MSFS, and I'm thinking the colors are overly saturated and occlusion overly done just to make it look better.  Physics is physics, and the lighting can't look different between sims if they BOTH use PBL.

You don't need to get so defensive.  If you read what I wrote carefully, I am actually praising XP12 as a huge improvement over XP11. IMO, the graphics still fall short of MSFS though.  And for me, the lighting is still better in MSFS. But that's not to take away from the improvements that XP12 has made over XP11.  It's honestly a nice jump from XP11 to XP12, IMO.

[jcomm 5,919]

I couldn't care less about what MFS is ( was ) in my install...

All that really matters for me is that what I have seen more than satisfies my expectations for XP12.

In some aspects, like weather modelling, while XP11 is already integrating GRIB data, I see Austin's effort in merging the WFS GRIB data with observations ( METAR / SPECI ), plus ( I believe this one is already present in XP11 too ) SIGMET / AIRMET.

A good merge between observation and model data is something we really need in a simulator that uses these sorts of weather feeds.

Still on the "weather theme", while I didn't see it mentioned, it appears to me that LR is also not closing the doors for 3pd regarding weather injection ( ? ). If the SDK allows for alternative GRIB sorces ( not only NOAA ), we could potentially have weather injection products using ther sources ( ECMWF, ... )...

Austin mentioned the "time dimension" and how it would be taken into account in the weather modelling, as well as in sesaonal effects, and so on. It would be great if instead of merging model data with METAR for a given date-time from the past,  they would instead merge TAF data with model data for times / dates ahead of the moment, so that if one wants to simulate a flight that should take place 6 hrs ahead from the current date-time, a merge between the model data and the TAFs for the departure / destination airfields would instead be used... ( Active Sky has this feature, at least in it's FSX / P3D ports )

No mention about non-ISA lapse rates for pressure / geopotential modeling. Since the other platform is already trying to model it, and at least 4 other platforms already do it too,  would really like to see X-Plane modelling the effects of temperature over the 3d pressure distribution, allowing for effects of it on those really cold / really hot days when flying a precision approach.

I was trying to find out mentions of the ephemeris for Moon and other sky objects, as well as a callendar, and precise data for rise / set times according to date-time, but I believe it was mentioned at one of the LR sites already a few months ago ( ? ). I really hope this can get simulated. It would be a big disappointment for me if not 😞

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by jcomm

[GoranM 3,764]

Just now, abrams_tank said:

You don't need to get so defensive.

Hardly.  Asking for clarification is not getting defensive.

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

If you read what I wrote carefully, I am actually praising XP12 as a huge improvement over XP11.

I did.  3 times.  It was a genius way to say "XP12 is improved, but compared to MSFS, it's still garbage"

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

And for me, the lighting is still better in MSFS.

Of course it is.  You are part of the group that prefers vivid colors.  ie.   And for me, the lighting is still better in MSFS. (being a subjective term by you stating that FOR YOU, it's better).  

Physics based lighting.  What you prefer and what is real are 2 different things.  Physics based lighting is as real as it gets (pun kind of intended).

Austin and Ben have done a video on this with FSElite.  

 

[mSparks 2,086]

21 minutes ago, GoranM said:

What you prefer and what is real are 2 different things.

XPlane 11 already caters perfectly to fair weather pilots when the real weather outside is frightful.

I had a full blown "ooohhhh thats why" moment when Ben explained he lived in San Diego and it was clear and sunny summer there all year round.

OTOH, I do not believe for a second anyone really prefers or wants their flight sim to look like a scene from the sims, even when a vocal minority insists xplane is doomed because it doesnt and wont.

Someone earlier posted a vid of the icon a5.

Heres what that looked like irl for anyone who forgot already.

 

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

4 hours ago, scotchegg said:

Well, don’t think I’ve ever seen a thread disintegrate quite so dramatically as this one.

Didn’t except anything else. I’ve just logged on this morning and read all of this and just watched the XP-12 videos. It looks pretty good. Really hard to judge though until one actually has it running on their PC.
Of course you have the hardcore XP fans in here, xplane till I die type. And then the same MsFs till I die fans. I am not sure why the two have to argue. Complete waste of energy. 

[Pastaiolo 1,688]

Reading the XP forum gets tiring and tiring because of the usual fights. And the fault here is for both factions. On one side the usual suspects attacking XP every time they can, on the other side what i would call the Austin League if it was ever a superhero movie.

 

As for XP12, i am overall happy on what they are bringing to the table but some things well, i expected better (but there is still margin of improvement). 

Videomaking: 2021 and LR still have not started producing videos which are well made, with proper fps, no stutters, compression etc etc. There are lots of video makers in the community but..nope. Still amateurish in this regard, the part about Austin i found a bit childish, but we know Austin is one of his kind too.

F-14: because i am a DCS user and i think that military planes have a place only in an environment in which their proper avionics can be used (and a XP F-14 won't have the proper avionics anyway).

Water: it's the feature i am the most satisfied with, even tho i am waiting to see how bathymetry will actually affect water color. Shallow nice waters are not just in the tropics, so Italy will be my test bed to see how it will actually look.

Clouds: we didn't see a lot of it, but sounds good. I notice the same issues which others pointed out with MSFS regarding "crispness" of them, so i hope it will be improved. That, and the cloud draw distance on the horizon which seem to be limited still especially on altitude. This is still the second feature i liked the most

Lighting: in this regard it's my main disappointment. WIP all you want, but it does feel a bit bland. An improvement yes, but i think a place in which other simulators still have the edge and LR still need to close the gap.

Ambient sounds: since i am not a pilot and i consider everything i use on my pc in my free time, without training aims, a videogame, i am happy for anything bringing more immersion. Including ambient sounds on the ground. Even tho, when another simulator introduced the same things, on this same forum i kept reading and reading how it was a joke and an element which clearly showed how that other simulator was a "game", in a world dominated by the Simmer masterRace.

New Helicopter: Third "feature" i am happy to see, helicopters are always welcome for me 🙂

Autogen: during these months i was lead to believe that there were some east european coders going to improve the autogen a bit, perhaps bringing more regional autogen (since otherwise we are, yet again, stuck with houses which either look american or german). Seeing only stuff about sport fields, lighthouses and airport towers was a bit disappointing. But this is something that can improved over time.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Pastaiolo

[abrams_tank 7,397]

1 hour ago, GoranM said:

I did.  3 times.  It was a genius way to say "XP12 is improved, but compared to MSFS, it's still garbage"

I don't know why you take my posts out of context.  For example, I just wrote this earlier, and you seemed to have missed what I wrote:

Quote

XP12 is starting to look like a modern graphical flight simulator because 7 years ago isn't that long ago for the timeline of flight simulators, IMO.  If MSFS had not existed, for me, XP12 is something I could tolerate because it is somewhat modern. 

Does that sound like I said XP12 is "garbage"?  On the contrary, I am implying XP12 is actually starting to look modern.  For me, 7 years is not a lot, in the timeframe of flight simulators, especially because there are so few players in the home market for civilian flight simulators.  Mind you, I have mentioned in the past that MSFS had leapfrogged over XP11 and P3D 5 by over 10 years in graphics technology.  I can't say this anymore between MSFS and XP12.  If I were to give MSFS 100% for having modern graphics for a flight simulator, I would give XP12, based on the videos I have seen, perhaps 80%, which is still a good grade (mind you, this is excluding FPS comparison which we don't exactly know at this moment for XP12). I don't know about you, but 80% is still a pretty good grade in my books and anytime I get 80% or over on an exam, I am happy.  And if MSFS had not existed, XP12 likely would have brought me back into flight simulation (which XP11 and P3D 5 did not manage to do).  

Please don't take words out of my mouth. 80% is not "garbage."   80% makes you an honor student in most schools. 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by abrams_tank

[omarsmak30 4,068]

I still don't get why folks are trying to compare MSFS with XP12. I mean, I don't expect the same visuals as MSFS from XP12 but so far, what LR has presented it is really a very welcome step forward. The clouds, weather and lighting were always things bothering me in XP11 and that has been rectified in XP12 and I am very happy to see that! My only wish if they would add a way to let third party to stream orthos in real time. 

By the way, is the weather model system that is used in XP12 similar to MSFS weather model? If yes, it looks like XP12 built in weather will also represent a competition to third party weather systems like Active Sky. 

[akita 429]

@abrams_tank what you are failling to understand is that Xplane12 features are scatterred across multiple builds, it is still months away for *closed* beta. There is a complete global scenery re-cut that is yet to be shown as well all the other new autogen. We are yet to see all the trees, clouds, water and lighting *together* and even those are not fully shown yet.

An example, water colors are shader bases now using bathymetry data, unlike MSFS that needs hand maskings. This was not shown yet. The same goes for seasons on ground textures that are yet to be shown, and many other aspects that should work together.

So how can you say how Xplane12 look like or perform while there is no actual full build yet?

Edited September 26, 2021 by akita

[beep 11]

Thank you all for your interesting (and less interesting) comments. I for one am so happy that the x-plane team is still alive and kicking and that I’m not condamned to use the Microsoft thing (completely uninstalled from my drive. At least the files that Big Brother Microsoft allows me to erase, because they want to own my pc.)

[abrams_tank 7,397]

4 minutes ago, akita said:

@abrams_tank what you are failling to understand is that Xplane12 features are scatterred across multiple builds, it is still months away for *closed* beta. There is a complete global scenery re-cut that is yet to be shown as well all the other new autogen. We are yet to see all the trees, clouds, water and lighting *together* and even those are not fully shown yet.

An example, water colors are shader bases now using bathymetry data, unlike MSFS that needs hand maskings. This was not shown yet. The same goes for seasons on ground textures that are yet to be shown, and many other aspects that should work together.

So how can you say how Xplane12 look like while there is no build thay contains all the features?

<Sigh>.  Yet another person taking my quotes out of context.  I just said this earlier on:

 

Quote

Either way, we will see if X-Plane can match MSFS in both graphics and FPS for the final release of X-Plane 12.  We won't know until the final release of it.

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by abrams_tank

[Murmur 3,941]

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Still on the "weather theme", while I didn't see it mentioned, it appears to me that LR is also not closing the doors for 3pd regarding weather injection ( ? ). If the SDK allows for alternative GRIB sorces ( not only NOAA ), we could potentially have weather injection products using ther sources ( ECMWF, ... )...

It was also mentioned (don't remember in which video) that Austin worked to improve thermals and the likes.

EDIT: Here its is, Q&A @ 1:00:08

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Murmur

[mjrhealth 820]

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

for X-Plane is to match MSFS in both graphics and FP

I really dont know why it has too really, Xplane does what it does fairly well, and every time the kids out there cry out for more lollies it just wrecks something, Everything comes with consequences. If you like MS go fly it, I happen to pref xplane and so I will fly it, If Xplane was MS there would be know point buying it and the same if MS was xplane. They are both different and I hope they stay that way. But it intrigues me as to how MS is going to recoup those millions for their investors, hope your data is locked up.Nothing is free it all comes with a price sometimes that coast is hidden. But the investors will want there money.

[akita 429]

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

<Sigh>.  Yet another person taking my quotes out of context.  I said this earlier on:

 

 

Ok, my bad.

What is all the hassle about then and why people are already comparing to MSFS? The only thing that can be somewhat compared for now is the what we knkw about the future SDK and the methods Xplane12 chose to implement it's new features.

[Janov 2,383]

I think it can be said that what was shown was not an exhaustive list of everything new/improved coming in XP12. Especially not if you consider that 12.0 will certainly be followed by many further improvements during the v12.xx run.

If you are a diehard fan of photorealistic scenery and dramatic cinematic postcard visuals, then yes, XP12 will likely not float your boat, either (My opinion: Not every sunset in the real world looks like an Arizona sunset 😉)

If you are a die-hard XP fan that already loves XP11...then certainly any improvement is welcome, but you won´t need to be persuaded to get XP12.

If you are in the "in between" bucket like a lot of users then the enhancements of XP12 - especially in the visual department - may tempt you to try it or fly it occasionally.

I am sure there will also be a demo, so no one has to buy the "cat in the bag" as we say in Germany 😉