FSX Cessna 172 vs RealAir FS9 Cessna 172-flight???

[LAdamson 240]

During the landing phase, I rarely actually look at the VC instruments. I use shift Z for airspeed, which is at the left top of the screen. Gear, flaps, mixture, and prop are setup on my Saitek X-52.I didn't mention this before, but I also trim for pitch a lot. I have a hatswitch on the Saitek's joystick, which simulates electric trim. I'm always trimming off "stick forces", which in reality is just what I see on the screen in addition to the sticks centering spring. Yet, it does give a somewhat sense of the need to trim.L.Adamson

[Geofa 108]

I'm going to chime in and say that the next biggest improvement in fm's imho would come from controls that respond and give the right feel for flight. You can manipulate equations all day long-but if the stick forces don't feel right there isn't much you can do. The fsx aircraft just trim far better for me than fs9 ever did-but that could depend on my controls totally. All I know is I stopped flying fs9 after year and a half as I couldn't hold my altitude manually-a continual fishing up and down-now I can-and landings feel more realistic. Is it fsx or my controls?-I don't know-but I want to fly the sim now-I think it is fsx.Then there is the aspect of what one desires to simulate. Does the Baron fly at an expected airpseed at 15" of manifold and 2300 rpm in the winter? (yes). Does it gain airpspeed rapidly when you push the nose slightly over like reality (yes). Do you get fairly close to the proper airspeeds with real world power/rmp combos-yes. Do the controls "feel" heavier and about right vs. a Cessna-yes. When you cut an engine does it respond exactly right?-a little but much more improvement needed here. Does it handle much like the real thing on landings-pretty close. Does it spin correctly-don't know-have never spun a Baron-not certified to do so. Can you do a timed standard rate turn-no! (Wonder why this continues to not be fixed).Cessna-haven't flown one in years-except a few months ago when my Baron broke down in Missouri and I had to take the fbo's old 180 horse 172 home. Did that bird fly like a 172?-actually it was pretty enimic-but the engine times were high. I was suprised that it actually seemed a little less powerful than what I remembered a normal non 180 horsepower 172 could do-but you just adjust.Similarly- my Baron used to get a constant 180 Tas with engines that were tbo and over. After replacing with new engines a few months ago-now 186 Tas-quite a difference. So in the real world-the same airplane may fly somewhat differently depending on its age, condition of engine, and rigging. Today with the cold winter weather where I live I actually got a climb out of 2000 fpm-not something I get in the summer for sure-and never saw that with the tired old engines.A lot of blabbing-but I find the fsx default aircraft improved-outside looks,panels (especially the vc's which I never wanter to use before and now use exclusively) and instrumentation on some.I find the Real Air Marchetti astounding..I await more like it.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[aerdt 0]

The only issue that I have noticed so far with the stock C172 of FSX was that the stall horn went off when the stall occured. In real life, the stall on my C172 goes off well before the stall actually happens - as it should be.Same with landings. I am constantly able to stall when flaring. I have tried with the stock FSX C172, but somehow I am not able to notice a stall -or- hear the warning.Maybe it's only me!? *shrug*Pat

[FlyingsCool 3]

What are you using for controller? The other day I switched from using an Xbox controller to using my CHProducts Yoke and Pedals, and all of a sudden I couldn't stall the C172 anymore. I haven't had a chance to test it yet, but it occurred to me later that it may have been because the sensitivity of the controller was too low, so I wasn't getting full range of motion out of the controls.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Guest Zevious Zoquis]

I've got my Saitek Cyborg joystick buttons set up as zoom in/out, and to cycle back and forth thru the different views (2D, VC, and so on). My Momo wheel pedals are set up for rudder, and then I've got a playstation dualshock gamepad set up for various other functions. Two of the buttons are set to trim up/down. The dualshock sits very nicely on my thigh while I'm flying. I rarely ever touch the keyboard. Active Camera allows me to mouse pan in the VC so while I fly, left hand is on the joystick, right hand is usually panning around with the mouse occasionally clicking on buttons in the VC but mostly just sightseeing :) WHen I need to trim a bit, I hit the spacebar to view forward, and trim with the dualshock. It works like a charm. I do often wonder how much of the criticism of flight models (and VCs actually) in general comes down to people not having controllers set up properly though...Can't comment on the FSX C172 as I don't have FSX. :)

[Guest X15]

I had this problem, just changed the sensitivity in the FSX settings and what a difference to the CH yoke. Not had it long and was pleased it just 'worked' out of the box, but this just made a real big difference.

[aerdt 0]

I have the CH yoke and pedals as well. I would bet it's a calibration issue. They're both a real pain in the butt to calibrate correctly.I noticed that my pedals perform horribly when calibrated with the wizard, but they work just fine when going back to the default calibration.Pat

[FlyingsCool 3]

As opposed to calibration, I would modify the sensitivity. The problem I have found with both FS9 and FSX is that the default sensitivity does not allow full range of motion of the controls. IOW, if I pull all the way out on the yoke, it only pulls the controls halfway.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[Guest X15]

That is what I was getting, having to pull it fully back to flare, not now though. I didn't touch the calibration, only moved the sensitivity slider to the right and the null zone to a low setting.

[kerke 0]

Geofa, I'm not a [real-life] pilot but I've been lucky enough to have a friend who owns a nice Beech Bonanza. He won't let me drive it during takeoff or landings. The real aircraft controls feel harder than what I expected and it seems easier to fly than the flight simulator ;-)Now my question: I've used the flight simulator ever since the Commodor64 days, but I have NEVER used a joystick, I am a keyboard pilot. As a real pilot, do you believe that a joystick increases the FSim experience and brings it closer to the real thing?If the answer is yes, what joystick do you recommend? I currently use FSX with Windows Vista Ultimate.*** This photos were taken before our flight at Miami's "Kendall-Tamiami Executive Airport" KTMB ***http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168695.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168696.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168697.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168699.jpgThank you in advance,Kerke

[Geofa 108]

That's a debonair-like I owned and flew for 11 years! Looks a little later than my 1962 model.By the way-I did this plane (along with reality xp and James Edent) in nearly 100% detail for fs2002 and fs2004-available here at avsim...your friend might like to give it a try as it was very similar in equipement.All I know is I can't fly a plane from the keyboard. I have a ch yoke, rudder pedals as they are the cheapest/best price ratio and a ch throttle quad connected to a real Baron throttle quad. Now the throttle/props/mixture feel realistic-cant' get better than that!The yoke and pedals though don't get the feel at all-but they do get the coordination. So I guess I would say-yes it will be an improvement over the keyboard for sure-reality-another thing.I agree though-the feel of the controls is not the same as a real aircraft-and it can be a lot harder to control than a real plane..unless you try the Real Air Marchetti. I am still amazed with how even the controlsin this plane can "feel" and along with smooth instrumentation I haven't seen anywhere "react".I do wish the hardware would catch up at a price range more could afford.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168700.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168701.jpg

[FlyingsCool 3]

How would you update it?There are other solutions out there. Just nothing at the performance and price point of the CH Products yoke. There are better options, but they are also much more expensive.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[FlyingsCool 3]

That's right, on the landing phase the only gauge I really care about is the tachometer, with an occasional glance at the ASI and VSI just to make sure I'm not going down too fast.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[LAdamson 240]

Since I use a joystick instead of a yoke (good for the RealAir Marchetti........anyway, as it has sticks), I really like the Saitek X-52 with it's seperate throttle. Has a twist grip for rudder, but I also much prefer rudder pedals for proper coordination.The X-52 has a solid heavy feel, just about the perfect tension on it's centering spring, and many buttons & hat switches.L.Adamson

[Manny 1,293]

If you want the truth...None of them are.:)I just got back from flying the 172 for the last 2 hours.. I was doing takeoffs and landings and steep turns and stalls. I hadn't done this in a long time. So I went with up an instructor to do the basics. I even did a Take off stall due to engine loss (Simulated).My right leg hurts... And I had to struggle to keep it in the middle of the runway because I had 15kts wind gusting to 18..with a 20degree x-wind..... All those sim flying didn;t help me one bit when it came to my real flying. But all in all, simming is still fun!:)Manny