Remove trees at ends of runways?

[Guest MauiHawk]

That link shows a strip with 11 ft. trees 240 ft from the end of a runway. I've encounterd several strips in FS9, at least, with something more like a 50ft tree within a couple hundred feet of the end of a runway. That's quite a bit different than the real world example you provided. I've yet to fly into such a strip in FSX, but I'm assuming based on the original post that situations like this remain in FSX.

[scott967 62]

Sure. I recommend using SBuilderX from here:http://www.ptsim.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18Read about getting and installing the manifold toolbar into IE. You have 2 choices: use FSX sidexside in slew mode to connect via simconnect, or use background images. This example is for background image.1. determine lat/long of airport: -122.91 48.71. Open IE and use the Manifold toolbar to find your subject area. Manifold will pull down from several different sources. In this instance I found Virtual Earth to be best resolution. Manifold pulls down tiles into its cache folder. You must zoom as necessary to get the proper resolution tiles downloaded. These will be loaded by SBuilderX.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168779.jpgStart SBuilderX and create a new project. Enter project name and location for BGL files (this could be addon sceneryscenery, but I prefer to save them in a project folder and drag them into FSX myself).http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168780.jpgUse the view menu "Go to Position..." to set the center to -122.91/48.71 and then use it again to check the "Show Background"http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168781.jpgyou should see the Manifold tiles. If you zoom in too far they won't appear, though. Once you have your background you can create the autogen polygon using the poly tool. You click to place a vertex/ start a polygon, then as you click vertices will be added to the polygon. The polygon is closed automatically. When you are done you type "esc" to get out of building mode.Now you can set the properties of the polygon. Put the mouse over an edge (NOT a vertex) of the polygon and right-click to bring up the context menu. You can use this menu to set the fill transparaeny and also to set the polygon properties. When you click on properties you will see this:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168782.jpgEnter a name for your polygon, then go and scroll down the scroll box. this contains all the various types of polygons you can create. You want "Airport_Backgrounds_ExcludeAutoGen" (if needed you could also flatten or change the texture as well). Once you have that selected click OK, and save your project. This is the polygon I created, going by how the photo tiles appeared:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168783.jpgYou can edit the vertices, add new vertices/delete vertices etc. When you are happy, go to the select tool and select "all polygons" then select the compile toolhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168784.jpgCheck the "Terrain Vector" and "copy files to BGL Floder" boxes, then "compile". The cvx_projectname.bgl file can be dragged into your addon sceneryscenery folder or other active scenery folder. Here is what that polygon gave me in FSX: http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/168785.jpgI attached the bgl I created, in case you want to try it out.scott s..

[Guest bustervk]

Thanks for the excellent tutorial Scott!RegardsBert

[RFields5421 1]

Thanks ScottI had missed that SBuilderX was available/ updated.

[FTD1949 0]

>That link shows a strip with 11 ft. trees 240 ft from the end>of a runway. I've encounterd several strips in FS9, at least,>with something more like a 50ft tree within a couple hundred>feet of the end of a runway. That's quite a bit different than>the real world example you provided. I've yet to fly into such>a strip in FSX, but I'm assuming based on the original post>that situations like this remain in FSX. Ok...here is one more link : http://www.somersetairport.com/runwayinfo.htmFor those of you who don't believe there are actually runway obstructions at the end of a runway just do your own search.If you don't choose to believe it then so be it.C

[Guest Adrian Wainer]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/aviation/Airports/Ranger.htmhttp://www.wsdot.wa.gov/aviation/Airports/LakeWenatchee.htmBest and Warm RegardsAdrian Wainer

[Mace 1,902]

>>I, too, have been replacing alot of my airfield boundry>textures using GE and KML_XML. I'm using "airfield 1" >( I think it's called ). Seems to look good in the winter>in any case. I do have several texture mods installed so I'm>not sure if this one is a modified file or the original.>In any case, it's not that ugly brown...>I have been using the tag that removes Autogen only, but in a few cases I have used an AirportBackground_ tag if GoogleEarth shows mowed grass (or its equivalent) there.Trees in the gildepath is a serious issue, but it's not as serious as trees actually on the airfield! See Philip S W Goldson airport in Belize in stock FSX for that.I think Flores, (MGTK) in Guatemala had it too.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[Mace 1,902]

re: how I do itI use F12 topdown view and slew at 1/4 time compression, to get lat long values for making ground polys, fences, parking, etc. I use GoogleEarth for reference points, and FS_KML.I don't use SBuilder, but your post will entice me to try it.It sure is interesting to see how others are making their polys. I don't have two monitors or dual installs or anything like that.ALT-TAB is my friend.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[Guest Republic DC-9]

Thank you all, and thank you Scott for the perfect tutorial and file.Well done, I appreciate it!Steve

[scott967 62]

I should have noted in the screen shot, the light green "grass" area around the airport is the result of the default polygon, which is using the "MaskClassMap" property. In FS9 and FSX, MaskClassMap is used to replace the texture normally resulting from the landclass process. In this case it creates the airport ground texture, but it also is used for utility corridors, for example.If you look carefully, at the edge of the airport light green texture is some of the "normal" landclass texture, but without the autogen trees. That's what the "ExcludeAutoGen" property does.If you don't like the size/shape of the default "grass" area, you could create an additional exclusion polygon to remove the default, and then add another polygon with the MaskClassMap property (in this case, you would also need to set the Flatten property, since excluding the default polygon will also remove the flatten). For more help, recommend using Scenery Design forum here, or FSDeveloper.com. That way more (and better) designers can help out on this.scott s..

[RFields5421 1]

Yes, those are challenging airports in the real world and FS.In FSX you have to clear a 130 foot obstruction less than 500 feet from the runway threshold for both Rwy 9 and Rwy 27 at Lake Wenatchee. The best information I can find on the web for the airport is that there are 800 feet on the Rwy 27 end and 1200 feet on the Rwy 9 end with vegitation trimmed down and the highest within 1500 feet of the runway end is 50 feet.Ranger Creek is a bit better in the real world and FSX. Though FSX does not have the 1500 foot clear area off the north where the parking is located, it does have about 1,600 ft before having to clear the 130 foot trees, and about 1,000 ft on the south end. In the real world the trees are trimmed down on both ends, especially on the south where the trees are kept low so that a pilot can come in or takeoff low over the river/ creek. Ranger Creek needs the extra clearance room because it's is used by gliders extensively.Neither FSX nor FS2004 show the real challenge of these two airport - the very tall trees very close along side the runways. Flight Sim gives you close to 700 feet of clear width - and according to Airnav - Ranger Creek has 130 feet between 134 ft tall trees on the right of Rwy 33 and 45 foot tall trees on the left. Lake Wenatchee has at least 100 feet on the north side of the runway.The GeoRender1 pack for FlyingM and Ranger Creek for FS2004 is exceptional and a real challenge and gives a good flavor for flying out of and into Ranger Creek. Much better than the default.No one is arguing that real airports do not have obstructions from trees and buildings.What the real world extremely seldom has is the norm in FSX - 500 feet from the runway end a 125 foot tall obstruction right on the fence line at small GA airports like those.According to the specifications on the Cessna web site - the C172 will need 2,770 feet distance and minimum ground roll on landing to clear the obstacles at Lake Wenatchee, and 3,165 feet to takeoff and clear the trees - on a 2,100 ft runway with 500 feet on each end before impact with the trees.AS the OP noted - KORS has trees at both ends of the runway in FSX. If you look at the photo on the Airnav page - http://www.airnav.com/airport/kors - you will see there are no trees on the north end of the runway.You will see obstructions on the southend of the runway are 162 ft tall and 2243 feet from the runway and 267 feet west (left) of the approach.In FSX those trees are 127 feet tall - 1259 feet from the runway - dead on the centerline. Thus the approach has to be over 20-1 to clear those trees and land.On the north end - FSX had 70 foot tall trees 465 feet from the runway, 20 feet off the centerline.The KORS runway measurements are from the runway end, not the overrun end.

[RFields5421 1]

BTW - this issue exists in FS2004 pretty much the same - the difference in FSX and FS2004 is that 100 times more trees in FSX, you are 1000% more likely to have autogen create trees on the extended centerline.

[Taildragger 2]

Central Idaho is worth checking out if you don't mind bringing home tree branches in the undercarriage.http://www.flyidaho.org/old/scenes/idapts_c.htmlhttp://www.flyidaho.org/old/scenes/idapts_s.htmlDetailed info at http://www.airnav.com/airport/52UCompared with the photos in the links, some of these are fairly well represented in FSX. In particular, Big Creek, Johnson Creek, Indian Creek USFS, Krassel USFS, Graham USFS, and Weatherby USFS.If there is a general fault in back-country strips, the cleared areas alongside the runway are often too wide in FSX. Rather than remove trees, in these cases it would be nice to move them in a bit closer.You can also view current real-life conditions on the Johnson Creek webcam.http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~yellowpinecm/John

[FTD1949 0]

>Central Idaho is worth checking out if you don't mind>bringing home tree branches in the undercarriage.>>http://www.flyidaho.org/old/scenes/idapts_c.html>>http://www.flyidaho.org/old/scenes/idapts_s.html>>Detailed info at http://www.airnav.com/airport/52U>>Compared with the photos in the links, some of these are>fairly well represented in FSX. In particular, Big Creek,>Johnson Creek, Indian Creek USFS, Krassel USFS, Graham USFS,>and Weatherby USFS.>>If there is a general fault in back-country strips, the>cleared areas alongside the runway are often too wide in FSX. >Rather than remove trees, in these cases it would be nice to>move them in a bit closer.>>You can also view current real-life conditions on the Johnson>Creek webcam.>>http://www.ruralnetwork.net/~yellowpinecm/>>John John, Thanks for your posting. I think that the majority of simmers think that an airport simply has no obstacles. I tried to point it out to them but I still don't think they believe it. I've flown out of a local private airport a few times with a friend and not only do you have to contend with trees but the runway is sloped and has a bend in it. (70VA) Depicted as straight and wide open in FSX. Craig ASUS A8N- nForce SLI Chipset SATA RAID Dual PCIe MOBOAMD ATHLON64 3500+ CPU w/ HT TechLG GWA-4161 DVD/CDSeagate ST3160811AS 160GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQSeagate ST3160811AS 250GB Barracuda 9 7200RPM 8MB SATA II 3Gb/s NCQEVGA 7950 GT KO PCIe 512mb nvodngov19147-[Guru3D.com] drivers SB Audigy 22G Corsair PC 3200 400MHZ Dual Channel DDR Super Alien 500W P/STrack IR3 w/vectorCH Yolk & RuddersFS Genesis Terrain MeshActive SkyRC4

[veldthui 0]

>Oh Come on!!! it may seem there are trees at the end of the>runway in real life, but in reality the tree top height is>below safe take off height, otherwise they would be cut down,>despite protests.>>>All you have to do is a Google Search and see how many>airports have>trees or other obstacles near the runway threshold. Many>requiring>as much as a 7:1 Glideslope to clear.>Take a look at NZNP in FSX and you will see a great big radar on the end of the runway. It is on the runway here not off the end.It certainly does not exist there in real life and when landing you have to come in high and stop fast. From the other end you just have to stop before hitting it.They could have at least got the basics right as this did not exist like this in FS2004