40 minutes ago, Lord Farringdon said:

Given your experience and knowledge @Ianrivaldosmith with G-Sync I'd be interested in your thoughts Ian on HDMI VRR and whether you would see it as achieving the same as G-Sync or whether it is more just another one in the line of G-Sync compatible approaches to the problem that perhaps do the job but not as well as G-Sync?

It’s good yes. The problem is the range. Let’s say it’s 44-120hz, which a lot of these ones seem to be. Then as soon as you’re below 44fps (which in MSFS can happen frequently) you get that slight judder as LFC kicks in, and the hz doubles. It can also cause flickering on some displays. You don’t have this with a proper G-Sync monitor. 

I have this issue with my LG-C1. Get below 40fps and LFC kicks in to frames as low as 20, but climb above 40fps again and you notice the shift. It’s subtle. Wouldn’t bother some people. However I rarely go below 40fps so don’t really have to deal with it much. 

19 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

It’s good yes. The problem is the range. Let’s say it’s 44-120hz, which a lot of these ones seem to be. Then as soon as you’re below 44fps (which in MSFS can happen frequently) you get that slight judder as LFC kicks in, and the hz doubles. It can also cause flickering on some displays. You don’t have this with a proper G-Sync monitor. 

I have this issue with my LG-C1. Get below 40fps and LFC kicks in to frames as low as 20, but climb above 40fps again and you notice the shift. It’s subtle. Wouldn’t bother some people. However I rarely go below 40fps so don’t really have to deal with it much. 

Thanks Ian and that sent me on search and I found this article (over a year old now though) which I have included because I think a lot of our XBox colleagues would be interested too I think. But you are right, it looks like HDMI VRR might only  be 30hz to 120 Hz....not a show stopper though by any means.  

"Both current versions of the Xbox support VRR in a window of 40Hz to 60Hz, but things get really interesting when we look forward to the Xbox Series X. Microsoft's next-gen console supports HDMI 2.1 and will handle VRR in 4K from as low as 30Hz right up to 120Hz - as long as your TV can do the same. Again Xbox Series X will support both FreeSync and HDMI VRR."

https://www.whathifi.com/au/advice/vrr-everything-you-need-to-know-about-variable-refresh-rate

Terry

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by Lord Farringdon

1 hour ago, Lord Farringdon said:

HDMI 2.1 and will handle VRR in 4K from as low as 30Hz right up to 120Hz

Yes, this is correct, the LG C1 is actually now 20hz through 120hz. 

 

However the issue still remains, that once it dips below 40FPS/HZ, LFC kicks in, which doubles the refresh rate......This doesn't happen with a true G-Sync hardware based monitor. Hence the reason, for flightsim, they are 100% worth the extra money, as flight sim FPS are widely between 30-60fps. 

 

EXAMPLE:- Let's say you're at 44FPS, so your HZ will be at 44FPS and smooth. Now let's say you momentarily drop down to 38 FPS. On a True hardware based G-Sync monitor, your HZ will also now drop down to 38, mirroring the FPS. Smooth. However, on a compatible based (I.e anything that is not hardware G-Sync based) your drop down to 38 FPS will result in a HZ of 76, as LFC has just kicked in. This can cause a slight judder. Noticeable to me, maybe not as noticeable to others. The problem with this is, that it can also create a flickering effect, as the now higher HZ may have a different brightness. This depends on the quality of the display. Doesn't happen on the C1, but you do get the slight judder. 

 

This is why, G-Sync hardware monitors command a premium, and for flightsim, to me at least, that premium is justified. Because I do notice stuttering, however someone else may not notice it as much as me. 

Edited October 13, 20214 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

On 10/8/2021 at 7:23 AM, Republic3D said:

I did however send the 3080 back and kept my 3090 after some serious consideration. And it's not about how the sim performed today, it was absolutely great with both GPUs. It was about my thoughts about VRAM usage in the future, with even more complex scenery and addons. 

Unfortunately this again has become my dilemma.  I had to RMA the 3090 I purchased a couple of months ago as it was faulty. Now, while I was given a refund by the retailer (I was not given the option of a replacement card  - I don't think they had stock), in the interim the gap between what you pay in Australia for a 3080Ti and a 3090 has blown out from about $350 to over $800!  While I was and still am all for future proofing when it comes to VRAM as I run the sim at 4K, it is much harder now to justify the extra expense $800 for an additional 12 gig of VRAM that you may or may not ever need.  There is only so much money you can throw at this sim so I may just have to live with 12 gigs of VRAM and hope for the best.

Bruce

On 10/12/2021 at 7:07 PM, Ianrivaldosmith said:

You want the gpu 100% used by MSFS. That’s the whole point. Actually, when the gpu is at 100%, it can stop you being main thread limited and eliminate any last stutters.

I just have to ask, Ian

how many power watts are you drawing & at what temperature is your GPU at 100%?

22 minutes ago, craigeaglefire said:

I just have to ask, Ian

how many power watts are you drawing & at what temperature is your GPU at 100%?

Couldn't tell you how many watts it is using, its an 850w PSU though. And the temperature is around 72-77C average depending on the room temp. 

11 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Couldn't tell you how many watts it is using,

HWInfo is a good utility for GPU wattage,

an 850W PSU is on the low side for a 3090…

27 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Couldn't tell you how many watts it is using, its an 850w PSU though. And the temperature is around 72-77C average depending on the room temp. 

That is similar to me on the 3080Ti.  850w power supply, temperatures roughly the same as Ian when using MSFS.  Never really goes above 79C even with a mild overclock, which I have turned down now as it isn't needed.

850W on a 3090, usually hovers around 65C locked at 30

50 minutes ago, 6297J said:

850W on a 3090, usually hovers around 65C locked at 30

Unlock it 😉 see above posts ^^^

3 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Unlock it 😉 see above posts ^^^

No need 🙃

2 hours ago, craigeaglefire said:

an 850W PSU is on the low side for a 3090…

No, it’s not. At all. 
 

 

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by Ianrivaldosmith

4 hours ago, craigeaglefire said:

an 850W PSU is on the low side for a 3090…

Outervision's calculator for my 9900K at 5.0Ghz, 32Gb DDR4, all storage devices, RTX 3090, 3 USB devices and everything simuloultaneously powered as well as even a 32" display which shouldn't even be included, running 3D games 8h/day PSU wattage came out to 638W, and they recommend a 750W PSU.  850W is more than ample to accommodate electrical wear over its 6y/o lifespan will be ample.

9 hours ago, brucewtb said:

While I was and still am all for future proofing when it comes to VRAM as I run the sim at 4K, it is much harder now to justify the extra expense $800 for an additional 12 gig of VRAM that you may or may not ever need.  There is only so much money you can throw at this sim so I may just have to live with 12 gigs of VRAM and hope for the best.

Bruce

Bruce--just depends on where you are happy setting LOD primarily.  If you're fine at 200, you'll rarely even get to 9Gb in the most complex of settings.  People will cite seeing 16Gb of VRAM in use, but sure just keep increasing LOD but the problem there is you can't see it that far out anyway, so that's a total waste.  The raw processing power is essentially identical to 3080Ti.  So you are paying $800 plus for 12Gb that will rarely if ever see an electron, and then there's the raw 7lb+ of weight hanging on the mounting hardware for 3090, and its prodigious size, all to house the tiny 12Gb of VRAM.  Now if 3090's raw power was a good 20+% greater than 3080Ti, I could see it, but unfortunately it isn't.   I'm at LOD-Objects at 300, LOD-Terrain at 400, and the highest on record for me it 10.9Gb--but most of the time is' around 8.5Gb at these settings.  Keep in mind MSFS is also tailored or XBox SX which only has ~10Gb of VRAM to exploit the rest is used as System ram in some capacity is my understanding.  Render Scaling primarily impacts GPU utilization numbers, not VRAM.  I have RS at 130 for my 3440x1440 display and it all looks fabulous.

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by Noel

And MSFS will use system ram (32gig here) if it needs more VRAM.

Cheers

bs