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Deltaair1212

Is a CPU upgrade worth it in P3D?

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2 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Like I said, you're looking at the wrong measure FPS.  What is needed is consistency in Timeframe, but I can't discuss P3D Betas specifically.  However, I'll suggest those with more cores in the future will be happier on the tuning front.  

I think both are important. 50fps gives me a more fluid and smooth look around when using trackIR.  Consistent frametimes eliminate stutter.  Both together is a fantastic experience, which I can now sustain in the Q400 in any weather scenario and scenery.  Never been able to do that in any other ESP based sim or with other hardware. 🙂


Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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5 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Like I said, you're looking at the wrong measure FPS.  What is needed is consistency in Timeframe, but I can't discuss P3D Betas specifically.  However, I'll suggest those with more cores in the future will be happier on the tuning front.  

I never had a problem with DD's Seattle even when combined with Orbx WA TE and QW 787 and that was on my older 9900K + Titan RTX ... but again, I aim for timeframe consistency not FPS which is usually 33.3ms with max deltas at 7ms.

Cheers, Rob.

Then how do you go about tweaking with time frames? I’ve never heard this term before only frames per second. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kevinfirth said:

50fps gives me a more fluid and smooth look around when using trackIR

It provides more frames rendered per second, it's not a measure of "fluidity" ... a second is a long time in computing terms.  Fluidity involves multiple factors:

1.  Your speed view motion requirements (i.e. TrackIR, or aircraft at 90 degree view, aircraft at 0 degree view) for any rendered scene

2.  Your FPS

3.  Input latency

4.  Timeframe deltas

 For example within 1 second and you have 60 frames rendered in that one second but the first 500ms (of that 1 second) each frame was rendering at 33.3ms and the last 500ms they were at 8.3ms then that's not going to be "fluid" but it will be 60 FPS.

3 hours ago, Deltaair1212 said:

Then how do you go about tweaking with time frames?

Graphics settings, frame limiters, and buffering (be in Vsync, RTSS frame cap, NCP frame limiter) and you have to have a target FPS (30 or 60 or 120).

If I'm using a game/sim and my FPS is all over the place from 120 to 20, that's not a "fluid" experience, that's a hot mess. 😉 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Edited by Rob_Ainscough

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1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

It provides more frames rendered per second, it's not a measure of "fluidity" ... a second is a long time in computing terms.  Fluidity involves multiple factors:

1.  Your speed view motion requirements (i.e. TrackIR, or aircraft at 90 degree view, aircraft at 0 degree view) for any rendered scene

2.  Your FPS

3.  Input latency

4.  Timeframe deltas

 For example within 1 second and you have 60 frames rendered in that one second but the first 500ms (of that 1 second) each frame was rendering at 33.3ms and the last 500ms they were at 8.3ms then that's not going to be "fluid" but it will be 60 FPS.

Graphics settings, frame limiters, and buffering (be in Vsync, RTSS frame cap, NCP frame limiter) and you have to have a target FPS (30 or 60 or 120).

If I'm using a game/sim and my FPS is all over the place from 120 to 20, that's not a "fluid" experience, that's a hot mess. 😉

I have to agree with Kevin that fluidity actually can come down to both jitter and frame rate, at least in some scenarios.  Even with a perfectly-spaced interframe period (no jitter), if there is a sufficiently rapid angular motion (e.g. an AI plane landing crosswise in front of you while you're holding 90 deg to the rwy for takeoff, or when rapidly panning the view) a higher frame rate will make things appear more fluid, because the angular distance moved per frame is reduced.

At 30 fps and looking in one direction or panning at slow-to-medium rates in-flight, things look quite fluid.  At the same stable 30 fps while panning the view fairly rapidly on the ground (say ~30 deg/sec or higher) you can pick up some "chatter" as the scenery objects begin moving across the frame fast enough that the larger distance between each object's position in each frame makes motion appear as rapidly stepped, rather than smooth/fluid.  Increase the frame rate, and things smooth out as the angular distance per frame is reduced at the faster frame rate.  That's why frame rate targets when VR and/or head tracking is in use are generally quite a bit higher.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, w6kd said:

(e.g. an AI plane landing crosswise in front of you while you're holding 90 deg to the rwy for takeoff, or when rapidly panning the view) a higher frame rate will make things appear more fluid, because the angular distance moved per frame is reduced.

Agree, BUT only if you are able to keep the timeframe deltas low.  I would much rather have 30 FPS with very low timeframe delta vs. 60 FPS with higher timeframe deltas.  Like I said, it's combination of FPS, timeframe deltas, motion requirements, and latency ... that defines "fluidity".  What you are describing is capturing more points of motion over a given time, you see more being rendered but if the timing is erratic (many wide variances in timeframe deltas) then the eye picks up on the variance ... call it a stutter or jitter, but it's all ultimately consistency in timeframe and low deltas ... the frame is either render in time or it's not ... assuming some form of sync/buffer is active to prevent two partial renders in one display frame (tearing). 

Depending how one configures their TrackIR, one's head motion can far exceed 60, 120, 240 FPS for what I call "absolute fluidity" which I define as never more than 1 physical pixel coordinate color change separation for any given rate of motion.

Cheers, Rob.

 

Edited by Rob_Ainscough

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45 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Agree, BUT only if you are able to keep the timeframe deltas low. 

That was precisely my point, that I prefer 50fps with trackIR now I can maintain that consistently due to the 10850K and 3090 combo. 🙂

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Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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Here I am also thinking about upgrading.

Server / 2 display front view : 9740X (14 cores) @ 4.7

Client /1 display  left view : 8700K (6 cores) @ 5.0

On 1 display the 8700K has slightly higher fps (2-3) but the 7940X has many terrain cores and is able to maintain smoothness on 2x 4K displays. I tested the 8700K too with 2xx4K displays and when making turns it had  small stutters….

 


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Time to step up to AMD Gerard, more cores, faster, cheap.  However, if you can delay to Q1 2022, I’d wait for next gen Ryzen and it’s new cache layout and DDR5 support.  40% gain which will put it well ahead of the yet to be released Intel 12000 series.

On a side note, I’m now a “believer” 😉 in liquid metal rather than thermal paste.  Testing has my CPU thermals 10C lower under same loads (on AMD front, haven’t tested with Intel yet).

Cheers, Rob.

 

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Another thing worth noting is... not sure which version you are using but v5 works very very well at 30FPS locked in nvidia control panel and run unlimited in the sim. I use ORBX true earth and have a VERY smooth experience.

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Flight Simulator - P3D V4.5/V5.2/MSFS2020 | Operating System - WIN 10 | Main Board - GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO | CPU - INTEL 9700k (5.0Ghz) | RAM - VIPER 32Gig DDR4 4000Mhz | Video Card - EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 ULTRA Monitor - DELL 38" ULTRAWIDE | Case - CORSAIR 750D FULL TOWER | CPU Cooling - CORSAIR H150i Elite Push/Pull | Power Supply - EVGA 1000 G+ 

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:18 PM, TurboKen said:

Another thing worth noting is... not sure which version you are using but v5 works very very well at 30FPS locked in nvidia control panel and run unlimited in the sim. I use ORBX true earth and have a VERY smooth experience.

Can you post a screen shot of your ncp settings?

thanks 

mike

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3 hours ago, mikeymike said:

Can you post a screen shot of your ncp settings?

thanks 

mike

Its actually very simple, I have a 60hz refresh rate monitor. Go into the nvidia control panel scroll down to "vsync" and select "half refresh rate". Then in P3D use unlimited NOT 30, it will be much smoother. 

Again this is for V5. For V4 I used 60fps Vsync lock as 30fps was not nearly as smooth in V4. At least in my opinion.


Flight Simulator - P3D V4.5/V5.2/MSFS2020 | Operating System - WIN 10 | Main Board - GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO | CPU - INTEL 9700k (5.0Ghz) | RAM - VIPER 32Gig DDR4 4000Mhz | Video Card - EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 ULTRA Monitor - DELL 38" ULTRAWIDE | Case - CORSAIR 750D FULL TOWER | CPU Cooling - CORSAIR H150i Elite Push/Pull | Power Supply - EVGA 1000 G+ 

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1 hour ago, TurboKen said:

Its actually very simple, I have a 60hz refresh rate monitor. Go into the nvidia control panel scroll down to "vsync" and select "half refresh rate". Then in P3D use unlimited NOT 30, it will be much smoother. 

Again this is for V5. For V4 I used 60fps Vsync lock as 30fps was not nearly as smooth in V4. At least in my opinion.

Thanks i will test as I am using gsync it is smooth. Thou I get pauses and stutter sometimes 

thanks 

mike

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:18 PM, TurboKen said:

Another thing worth noting is... not sure which version you are using but v5 works very very well at 30FPS locked in nvidia control panel and run unlimited in the sim. I use ORBX true earth and have a VERY smooth experience.

Adaptive half refresh?

and also fps limiter to 30 in ncp?

 

thanks 

mike

Edited by mikeymike

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18 minutes ago, mikeymike said:

Adaptive half refresh?

and also fps limiter to 30 in ncp?

 

thanks 

mike

Yes that's it. I'm doing this from memory I'm at work... And unlimited in sim.

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Flight Simulator - P3D V4.5/V5.2/MSFS2020 | Operating System - WIN 10 | Main Board - GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO | CPU - INTEL 9700k (5.0Ghz) | RAM - VIPER 32Gig DDR4 4000Mhz | Video Card - EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 ULTRA Monitor - DELL 38" ULTRAWIDE | Case - CORSAIR 750D FULL TOWER | CPU Cooling - CORSAIR H150i Elite Push/Pull | Power Supply - EVGA 1000 G+ 

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