Additional yoke handle designs

[BeckerSup 2]

@tutmeister Any information you could share on the future of different handles? Do you foresee any third-party development or support for yoke owners making their own?

[Ixoye 1,821]

I would like to see a lighter handle that prevents the shaft from being weighed down and rubbing against the bottom of the metal guide, as it is now I have to push the handle slightly upwards when fine tuning in pitch to prevent it from chopping against the metal guide, it is an irritating design flaw, a lighter handle would probably solve this issue, a handle in carbon fiber would be nice,

Edited October 17, 2021 by Ixoye

[tutmeister 705]

16 hours ago, BeckerSup said:

@tutmeister Any information you could share on the future of different handles? Do you foresee any third-party development or support for yoke owners making their own?

Hi

The next design is a 737/747 style yoke. After that we have had requests for 777, 787 and Q400. Because they are cast to in metal to be as close to the real thing as possible they are quite expensive to develop due to the very high costs of having the tooling made for aluminium casting. We are also looking at resin cast or plastic molded but they would still need to meet our standards. If it doesn't feel right then we won't do it.

We are also getting a lot of demand for our throttle so this will probably release next.

Third party support is not something we have considered, I will look into it. It may be that we can provide a kit for home builders to use with our yoke base. I can't promise that yet though.

 

12 hours ago, Ixoye said:

I would like to see a lighter handle that prevents the shaft from being weighed down and rubbing against the bottom of the metal guide, as it is now I have to push the handle slightly upwards when fine tuning in pitch to prevent it from chopping against the metal guide, it is an irritating design flaw, a lighter handle would probably solve this issue, a handle in carbon fiber would be nice,

You shouldn't have to lift the yoke to be able to move it even small amounts. As a friction test, will your yoke rebound backwards and forwards a few times if you release it from full forward? I don't mean loads but it shouldn't just stop dead when you let go.

Chris

[Ixoye 1,821]

There is nothing wrong with my yoke, but if i lightly pressing the handle upwards to counteract the weight of the handle, I can feel that it moves more freely, it's a subtle feeling. but it is notable, and a lighter handle would probably make the shaft move completely unaffected.

[BeckerSup 2]

3 hours ago, tutmeister said:

Hi

The next design is a 737/747 style yoke. After that we have had requests for 777, 787 and Q400. Because they are cast to in metal to be as close to the real thing as possible they are quite expensive to develop due to the very high costs of having the tooling made for aluminium casting. We are also looking at resin cast or plastic molded but they would still need to meet our standards. If it doesn't feel right then we won't do it.

We are also getting a lot of demand for our throttle so this will probably release next.

Third party support is not something we have considered, I will look into it. It may be that we can provide a kit for home builders to use with our yoke base. I can't promise that yet though.

 

You shouldn't have to lift the yoke to be able to move it even small amounts. As a friction test, will your yoke rebound backwards and forwards a few times if you release it from full forward? I don't mean loads but it shouldn't just stop dead when you let go.

Chris

Appreciate the response. The cast metal certainly provides the best feel, but to me the most valuable characteristics of your design are the spring tension and axis travel. What would be really nice is support for adding a button or switch to the yoke for low-volume custom applications. I have several interpretations of what "support" means in this respect. At a bare minimum, support could mean identifying the maximum depth to which one could drill and tap a given part of the handle to mount an accessory, and not supporting any electrical interface with that accessory. An ideal case would be supporting mounting, wiring and software mods to make additional controls work just like the native controls on the yoke. I understand you're swamped with what you have right now and that's good for everybody. The applications I have in mind would probably never make business sense for you, but could be justifiable for certain customers if they paid the development costs themselves.

[polosim 841]

As request, Could you consider a version yoke for E-190 family?

 

[SergeyPe 92]

Coming back to the original topic- HERE is the cast plastic Boeing737 replica handle on my Fulcrum. The mounting collar was 3D-printed, a 5-pin contact insert from the regular DIN plug was used for connecting the electronics to the shaft and a spare shift register board for connecting the buttons was taken from one of my projects. I didn't want to cannibalize the stock handle, otherwise the PCB and the connector (maybe also the collar) would've been taken from it.

BUT: 1) you'll need to be absolutely sure about what you are doing and b) I would expect a serious impact on the warranty😀.

[tutmeister 705]

I moved some posts about friction into their own thread.

[thtanner 2]

I am a bit disappointed to see the new designs are all centered around larger aircraft, and not more GA aircraft that some of us interact with on a more day to day basis. A Piper PA28 style yoke would be wonderful. Having a Cessna style yoke would be nice for those who fly Cessnas as well.

The PA28 I fly has a plastic handle. It doesn't have to be the more expensive resin coated handle; plastic ones are fine, too.

Edited October 18, 2021 by thtanner

[jon b 2,047]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:08 PM, tutmeister said:

The next design is a 737/747 style yoke. After that we have had requests for 777, 787 and Q400. Because they are cast to in metal to be as close to the real thing as possible they are quite expensive to develop due to the very high costs of having the tooling made for aluminium casting. We are also looking at resin cast or plastic molded but they would still need to meet our standards. If it doesn't feel right then we won't do it.

As I mentioned elsewhere the current fulcrum yoke actually feels to have much better build quality than the real 787 yoke, which has a cheap thin metal feel and sound to it when you tap it.

Edited October 18, 2021 by jon b

[tutmeister 705]

1 hour ago, jon b said:

As I mentioned elsewhere the current fulcrum yoke actually feels to have much better build quality than the real 787 yoke, which has a cheap thin metal feel and sound to it when you tap it.

Hi Jon

I actually have a real 737 yoke here and while it is a bit thicker than the 787 it is not a fully enclosed design like ours, obviously to save weight and casting complexity. It looks sort of 'cheap'!

Ours was going to be fully enclosed like our current one but now I am having a think about the weight.

[jon b 2,047]

Hi Chris,

Yes, I suppose the real aircraft yokes once integrated with the control column take on a bit more mass and feel. Where as the fulcrum yoke which doesn’t have a control column to give it this extra feeling of mass is built heavier so still feels as solid.

Well whatever you’ve done it’s worked, the fulcrum with its weight and powder coating finish feels like an authentic flight control in your hand not a game controller.

[SergeyPe 92]

Hi Chris,

Maybe it's too early to ask but I was wondering what kind of button array the new 737 handle is planned to have? Just an example- the 737 handle I'm using is symmetrical (except for the trimmer/ hat switches): two 2-way rocker switches (left & right) in place of PTT rocker, two buttons in place of AP Disconnect, and the trimmer/ hat can be swapped quite easily, allowing for the Captain or FO versions. This might be an additional selling point as quite many of our fellow simmers are using the throttle control units like TM Warthog that are aimed at the left-hand operation, so the trimmer and AP Disconnect should be accessible by the right thumb. OK, the extra buttons are not 100% authentic, but IMHO there is no need for a precise replica...   

[tutmeister 705]

23 hours ago, thtanner said:

I am a bit disappointed to see the new designs are all centered around larger aircraft, and not more GA aircraft that some of us interact with on a more day to day basis. A Piper PA28 style yoke would be wonderful. Having a Cessna style yoke would be nice for those who fly Cessnas as well.

The PA28 I fly has a plastic handle. It doesn't have to be the more expensive resin coated handle; plastic ones are fine, too.

Hi

It is purely based on demand. The existing yoke is a design compromise to not feel out of place in ga or airliners or anything in between. We have had a lot of requests for airliners and not many for ga as it seems a lot of people are content with the existing one for ga use. I'm not against ga yokes but there is no denying the volume of requests for a 737 style is much higher than anything else.

Here are some yokes from my airfield, the first 2 are warriors I've flown and you are right in that a lot of ga aircraft use plastic yokes. There are so many variations even within the same type which makes it difficult to define what is a piper warrior or c172 yoke for example. I am open to suggestions though and will look at what we can do in the future.

Warrior

Warrior

C172

C152

B58

[tutmeister 705]

1 hour ago, SergeyPe said:

Hi Chris,

Maybe it's too early to ask but I was wondering what kind of button array the new 737 handle is planned to have? Just an example- the 737 handle I'm using is symmetrical (except for the trimmer/ hat switches): two 2-way rocker switches (left & right) in place of PTT rocker, two buttons in place of AP Disconnect, and the trimmer/ hat can be swapped quite easily, allowing for the Captain or FO versions. This might be an additional selling point as quite many of our fellow simmers are using the throttle control units like TM Warthog that are aimed at the left-hand operation, so the trimmer and AP Disconnect should be accessible by the right thumb. OK, the extra buttons are not 100% authentic, but IMHO there is no need for a precise replica...   

It is yet to be fully finalised but similar to your description. The trim will require both parts to be pushed for it to work. The push to talk and AP disconnect will be mirrored on both sides of the yoke.

The other side of the yoke has not been finalised simply because I haven't had time to sit down and think a bit more.

We are either going to put a hat on it or put more buttons on it similar to what we currently have, even though it is not accurate. This would mean the hat would have to go in a small bulge which again is not accurate but is a concession for simulator use.