FSX and real world flying training

[soaring_penguin 428]

although I am not a real world pilot (or you have to consider hang gliding as such ) I am fond of flying.From my experiences from the passenger seat in several small planes, I believe there is much room of improvement for the feel of the air masses, but I don't know if it will be ever possible to translate that to the pc, not without a huge investment anyways.And the wife would not approve of such seat as in the above movie in the living room.However I found two utilities that I think are indispensable to keep the bad habits down :- trackIR. At least you learn to look out of the window and not to fixate on the instruments- FSflyingschool. I was proud on my landing skills until their instructor started barking at me after landing ( kidding, he is quite nice in reality :) ) I was quite surprised when he rated me ZERO after my first landing. But I am getting there ...Some of the real world pilots have experience with those ? Do you guys agree ?Jan

[ryanbatc 12,783]

I had my first intro flight back in 2002 I think....I played a lot of FS2002 and at that time I knew a lot about the airport environment, the aircraft, controls, flight forces, radios/instruments etc. It was just like Flight simming but I finally got to feel the forces in the airplane. My instructor was fairly suprised...

[Guest stew286]

HI ALL, Just a post follow up.There is a difference between commercial and private flying.Many fellow pilots do not like flightsim they consider that people who use flightsims consider themselves pilots.This i found to be untrue.Most adults are aware that it is not like real aviation but its getting pretty close.VFR flying is out of the cockpit heading and altitude airspeed can be checked at a glance.flying by the seat of your pants is the correct definition for light aircraft you feel the aircraft every yaw or wind gust you can tell the aircraft is flying correctly.Commercial flying is totally different that is 80% IN COCKPIT.there is so much to do pre start taxi,take off its a huge workload.The bigger the aircraft the bigger the workload.Commercial flying is not a thing to be taken lightly Vfr is far more the flightsim genre.If we are talking ppl status licence in some cases it is good.I say get the lessons then practice what you have done on the flightsim.lesson13 will come much quicker.stu

[Guest X15]

I like FS Flying School, my real instructor is much nicer though! It does help in the sim for sure. I got a big fat ZERO for my landings at first also, makes you think it all out a lot more. Not sure anything in FS Flying School really helps in the real world. Most of my conversations with my instructor are about local land marks, he may say we are descending to 700 feet for the circuit and point out a turning point or explain an exercise I'm to do, he certainly isn't constantly reminding me about the heading, real planes get disturbed and I think most students are aware as is the instructor when the plane is wandering off heading as an example. Though all in all FS Flying School is worth having and using.I must try track IR at some time, I keep promising myself I've finished spending money on my sim set-up, but this looks to good to ignore.Just an edit to add that I haven't yet used the circuit facility in FS Flying School - that may well tranfer very well to the real world, I must try it out.

[Guest X15]

I'll be taking the time to give your blog a thorough read, very useful for me following your footsteps ;0) I know in my mind that I should only use the Yoke to get the bank angle I want, maybe here I need to concentrate already as I tend to hang on to it for grim death! (Am I the only one who inititally felt their trianing aircraft would happily tip upside down if it was allowed to?) Still I've yet to really do any proper training on turns/rudder so I'll remember that it will be different from the sim from what you have said.

[Guest dykesc]

When I took my real world instrument check ride several years ago, Flight Simulator really paid off for me. I had never flown an actual DME arc instrument procedure. My instructor gave me great training but we never had the opportunity to fly DME arc's under the hood. There were none nearby. Well I had to travel quite some distance to hook up with an FAA Examiner for my check ride and wouldn't you know it, there was a DME arc procedure at the field I flew into and yes he required me to fly it. I flew it just like I had many times on Flight Simulator and nailed it.Flight Simulator is a great tool for instrument practice. You can think and fly through procedures in a challenging yet non threatening environment until the technical skills and thought processes come very naturally. Then you can apply more focus on precise aircraft control when you fly.

[GaryTrammell 10]

As for me, I started My RW training last year after my friends kept telling me i should do the real thing not just FS. (boy they had no idea the money i would spen *LOL* dang them) Anyway my instructor is a Retired B-36 Airforce Pilot and he said that ALl my FS time has really made a difference in my progression. Ofcourse I had to learn how to look out the window *smile*. But like someone else said, I flew right throught the instuments, flight planing, ground school type of stuff. I even mastered S Turns and Stalls Fast. So I would have to say (and my instructor) that it can help. Let me add, What a blessing to be taking lessons from an AirForce b-36 pilot. The stories he can tell are amazing, I enjoy the ride to the practive area just for listening to his stories. What a cool plane the B36 is. ANyway! I also talked to a RW 757 pilot on my last trip from ATL to PDX after we landed and he said he (and others) use Lonny Paynes 757 panel & FS to brush up when needed! Very Cool. TELL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD FSX IS NOT A GAME! *grin*Gary TrammellPro Rodeo AnnouncerFuture PPL

[Guest ExtraPilot]

I've collected links to and information about many articles on this topic on my Flight Simulator page:http://www.bruceair.com/microsoft_flight_simulator.htmSee specifically:http://www.bruceair.com/microsoft_flight_s...iation_Training

[Guest wyoming]

to start with RW flying and with a terrific little plane the PA-19, that you fly litterally by the seat of your pants. With the instructor seating behind, which makes you feel in command. Strictly a six-pack as far as instruments, no flaps. That engraved in my memory a general feel and perception of flying (those 3-point landings without seeing the rwy ahead) that has never left me and that I miss in normal GA aircraft (those that I can afford). I also tend to fly this way in the sim, which leads to many errors because of the limited physical feed-back. Again, the Marchetti is pretty much the only a/c that reproduces, somehow, this feel.

[Guest christianholmes]

I've basically given up playing FS since I started my lessons last fall.Flight sim will teach you bad, incorrect habits- period.With that said, once you understand what you are doing, you certainly use it as a valuable training tool. The key is KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE DOING.I would definately not recommend it for somebody until they have soloed, or have a competent pilot (not necessarily an instructor) showing them how to use it. The built in lessons are a gimic, and using it to practice flying maneuvers is not a good idea... dutch rolls for instance don't feel/work the same as in real life so don't bother.Last time I used it was to practice my cross-country to Poughkeepsie. With Megascenery NY, you get a good feel for the visual checkmarks- but it's still a far, far cry from what you'll experience in the actual cockpit.Dealing with ATC is just nothing like the sim. The sim is very sterile and predictable. Practicing (real life) touch and gos two weeks ago, I had 3 planes in the pattern and a Dash-8 on 3 mile left base when I was on downwind! That was interesting, cool, and scary at the same time. I was doing touch and gos on a 3600 foot runway with an approach over a hill, which presents it's own challenge.If you insist on using it, don't bother flying the pattern or anything like that- practice using your checklist and doing wind corrections and stuff like that- which can help prepare you for the higher cockpit load of real life versus the sim.

[Guest X15]

At my field the pattern is perfectly replicated in FSX using Just Flights UK photo scenery down to every last pond, wood and landmark. So perfectly that I flew the pattern un-aided on my first air experience flight. They have some serious noise abatement (I have to miss a number of houses and villages) and I have to say it was very useful for me to fly the pattern in the sim.I agree though control inputs can't be learnt on the sim, it would be a total waste of time. What I do get from the sim is running through checklists, thinking out the numbers and for me with photo scenery.. well I know my trianing area like the back of my hand now from FSX!I think Bruce's book gives some very clear hints so that anyone with a bit of initiative would know what they were doing using it as an aid to training. Certainly I do not think I need a flight instructor to tell me how to set up a structured learning programme, maybe I'm not usual in that? I think not as my instructor will tell you, in his experience people with PREVIOUS experience of flight sims simply fly the real planes - they hardly have to learn the process because a real aircraft will do exactly what a simmer will expect it to do.Still I had the same regarding my past experience in flight dynamics.. oooh that theory regarding flight you learn at university during an engineering degree won't help you fly a plane it is all design orientated and won't help at all. Wanna bet! At least I know where the lift equation comes from and what it is actually saying and am not flying around with some very strange misconceptions some people seem to have about flight :0)

[Geofa 108]

I think bad habits can be developed as easily in real flight as with the sim (Faa Fundamentals of instructing -(the principle of primacy and intensity).However, things have changed greatly since I got my license 17 years ago when the priority for Vfr flight was placed on the out the window view.Now the Faa stresses the "integrated flight instruction" method-these are quotes from them....A. The objective of integrated flight instruction technique is the formation of firm habit patterns for the observance of and reliance on flight instruments by your student.B. By requiring your student to perform all flight maneuvers (except those requiring a ground reference) by reference to instruments as well as outside references, (s)he will develop from the start the habit of continuously monitoring his/her own and the airplane's performance.When I got my commercial multi engine rating 4 years ago I was surprised that the instructor had me do all manuevers first with the hood-(45 degree turns etc.) -after mastered with the hood then visually... The explanation was that if you can do them by the instruments only-doing them visually afterwords will be cake. Completely opposite of what I was tought 17 years ago.I have not ever felt a negative from using the sim-and it is certainly a cheaper and hour wise more effective way to loose bad habits...-) It does help to have real time so your head can fill in the blanks for what the sim represents-but is is an incredible valuable asset. Looks at some instruction manuals from the 50's where they tell you to sit in the cockpit and imagine all that we can have done on a computer screen now-no compare.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest JeffPreston]

Glad you folks are enjoying FSFlyingSchool!Our goal is to offer information to simmers which help them realize what they're doing to themselves, their aircraft and their passengers.The instructors are pretty picky and are certainly more formal than my witty instructor at KAJO, but they're there and always ready to help you brush up your simming skills.For those who thrive on fear, FSFlyingSchool does throw some nasty curves your way in the failures department, which goes far beyond what's available in standard FS2004 or FSX.I'd have to say I agree that unpredictable weather - gusts, especially while landing - would help spice up the sim and make it more like the real world. I remember some exciting times when I first flew solo! Hmmm... that gives me some ideas for FSFlyingSchool...

[Guest jcomm]

>Fs does have a few problems though-a timed>standard rate turn doesn't seem to be able to be done-so I>just don't do them in the sim.Geoffa, see my post on this subject in :http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=32305&page=5I have all of my TCs displaying proper turn rates (GA aircraft). The solution includes:1) Editing the gauge (easy in XML) to change the way various positions of the turn reference (plane or vertical line) are set - NONLINEARITY2) Depending of various factors, devide the Token value by COS(bank) or use a somehow more elaborate algorithm (thread above)...Most turn-coordinator problems derive from the fact that some aircraft designers alter stability derivates in the airfiles. These are supposed to be invariant for the various aircraft models (they're normalized), but sometimes in order to overcome some of the limitations inherent to the MSFS flight model they tweak those values. This can in part respond for the abnormal values obtained when one uses the token variable in a turn coordinator.

[Geofa 108]

Thanks for the info-I'll look into it.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg