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scott967

FSGenesis Mesh

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Can't say I love the look of airports with "raised" ends either, but the tradeoff for the higher res mountain mesh is certainly worth it. However, I have not yet noticed "ditch" problems in regards to taxiways. Have flown to many airports throughout the western U.S. including Las Vegas, and have not encountered this problem.L.Adamson

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Looking at my initial response I see how it could be taken the wrong way. I was actually thinking aloud wondering if I had missed somthing literally, it wasn't directed at you personally, more an attempt to discuss so take no offense.Ian.

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Guest wyoming

for airports in Fly! either.

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>I have yet to find an easy way to correct airport>plateaus. It can be done by hand, but at least for me is time>consuming.Scott,On FS9, I used to correct airport altitudes and sometimes location with different tools : AFCAD for airport position, FSTerrain to define a new "flatten" file, and JABBGL to correct runway and taxiways altitudes. Up to now, I didn't have to correct any airport in FSX, but my question is : can I use the same tools on FSX ? And if not, which tools do you use ?Thanks for your answer.Alain

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>>On FS9, I used to correct airport altitudes and sometimes>location with different tools : AFCAD for airport position,>FSTerrain to define a new "flatten" file, and JABBGL to>correct runway and taxiways altitudes. Up to now, I didn't>have to correct any airport in FSX, but my question is : can I>use the same tools on FSX ? And if not, which tools do you use>?>Thanks for your answer.>>AlainNote that JABBGL works OK for your own use -- it can be a problem on distributed sceneries since it means that modified copies of the default files are floating around. It could be a problem in places like southern california where a number of large airports that were designed as addons reside in the same default AP9 file. Also JABBGL doesn't work right for below-sea level airports.For FSX, we have the advantage that the default flattens can be excluded. One common problem is that the default flatten is too big, resulting in a drop-off. The FSX SDK has the tool shp3vec which can build the exclusion area as a polygon and create a new replacement flatten. There are a couple of front-ends to shp2vec. FSX_KML 1.05 is designed to use Gogle Earth for positioning. SbuilderX can use the manifold toolbar (for IE) in a simular manner, or use aircraft position in FSX for placement.If the actual airport elevation is wrong, there isn't an easy fix tool yet, but there is a tool in development called SDE which will decode / extract airport data to xml files. these can be hand edited and then compiled with FSX ver bglcomp. It's also posible to use AFCAD21 files from FS9, but it is necessary to merge the FS9 data with FSX data (possible from the default FSX airport) to get a true FSX AFCAD-style file. Personally I would like to see Tom Hiscox take the SDE output and use it in an updated SceneGenX, but it doesn't seem like Tom is active these days.Even modifying the airport flatten is not sufficient in some cases. KLAS and KMRY are two that I can think of off the top of my head. The only thing I have been able to do for this is to obtain source elevation data for the area, convert it to a gray-scale image so I could do a gradient fill in photoshop (actually GIMP but same idea) in the area between the airport flatten and the surrounding mesh. The sdk resample tool then builds the mesh file in my adjusted area. Here is an example. This is an elevation profile of KLAS from south looking north. The dots are approximate ends of Rwy 25R/L:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/169572.jpgNow I've added the flatten @ 2182 ft. We see the plateau on the east side. By adding a gradient, I try to get something more like the red curve:http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/169573.jpgscott s..

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Hi there,mesh "filling" is certainly a useful approach. An alternative that doesn't require external mesh data is the use of sloped flattens (with SBuilderX). As long as the flatten polys are not too complex they do a very nice job. I've been using sloped flattens for some of my airfield surroundings (and rivers), Don Grovestine has used them with his CYYJ add-on, and Gary Summons is starting to use the same approach for his UK airfields: http://www.uk2000scenery.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=414.0I'm surprised that there aren't more adjustments like this for US airfields. After all, the issue has been around for many years and just because there are thousands of airports doesn't mean that we can't have adjustments at any ;-)Cheers, Holger

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>However, I have not yet noticed "ditch" problems in regards to>taxiways. Have flown to many airports throughout the western>U.S. including Las Vegas, and have not encountered this>problem.I have to ditto that statement. I haven't had a ditch experience either. IIRC, I have my resolution set to 9m and I have never used AFCAD.Strange elevations, yes.Visit the Virtual Pilot's Centerwww.flightadventures.comhttp://www.hifisim.com/Active Sky V6 Proud SupporterRadar Contact Supporter: http://www.jdtllc.com/


 

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The problem I have run into, is the issue of using the PUBLISHED airfield altitude data.What I am getting at is this: Assume you have an airport that has a published alt of 938 feet ASL. ...and in FS, the airport elev is also 938 feet ASL.Now, let's say that the 938 feet ASL flatten in FS yields a nasty plateau. In real life, that's a sloping runway...(see MPTO)...Let's also assume that we will not smooth the mesh and get into any of those types of mesh modifications. Let's also assume that we don't want to mess with a sloped flatten.So, (given the above limitations) the question I have is, in your all's opinion, is it better to alter the airport elevation data from the published, to say, 915 feet, thus giving less of a plateau, or is it generally best to make sure your flatten matches precisely with the published altitude data?I have always ascribed to the latter...making sure the published data matches what I put in my bgl.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case


Rhett

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Hi Rhett,Another thing to bear in mind that throws a further wrench into the works is that the runway threshold elevations rarely coincide with the airport's published elevation, since airports are rarely if ever flat. There is often a wide variance of elevation throughout the airport grounds. I'm not sure what location on the airport grounds is used as the basis for the airport's published elevation, but it is nearly always different from the runway threshold elevations.


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>Hi Rhett,>>Another thing to bear in mind that throws a further wrench>into the works is that the runway threshold elevations rarely>coincide with the airport's published elevation, since>airports are rarely if ever flat. There is often a wide>variance of elevation throughout the airport grounds. I'm not>sure what location on the airport grounds is used as the basis>for the airport's published elevation, but it is nearly always>different from the runway threshold elevations.Hi Justin, long time no talk :)yes that's exactly what I'm referring to. So your choices, as a designer who wishes to tweak and blend a plateau seem to be as follows:1) mod the mesh, or2) mod the flatten elevation from a value other than published, or3) eliminate the flatten and draw runways using polysOption 3) is only practical at small dirt strips where you don't have any AI. AI won't use a sloping drawn poly runway correctly. Maybe in FS11. I did an experiment with this a few months ago, and it was a neat looking sloped runway. Too bad AI don't use it well.Option 2) is bad because it will put the airfield at an elevation other than what is published. That's not good if you are a designer who likes to put things 100% to real world. Also it's bad for pilotas who expect 938 ft runway elev and get 915. That could be a bit of a surprise to a pilot!Option 1) is something I have not explored.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case


Rhett

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To me the only acceptable solution resides in the future--when MSFS finally is able to depict airports as they are in real life: constructed on undulating terrain, rather than perfectly flat pool tables.I have lobbied strenuously for this in the past and will continue to do so in the future. As you noted, right now the AI will follow the flat-as-a-pool-table horizontal plane set by the flatten elevation corresponding to the airport elevation parameter, but I feel confident that the next major version of FS will allow an airport to be "painted" onto the underlying terrain without the need or interference of a flatten parameter.-------Justinhttp://www.fsgenesis.netHigh Quality Scenery for FS200x


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Hi,Sometimes, this kind of problem seems to be caused by the wrong location of the runway. This is probably the cause for GVSF (see attached picture). I don't think this runway is located in the slope of the volcano. Google Earth locates the runway closer to the sea, but then the runway altitude should be worse !!It is this kind of problem I try to correct (on FS9, using AFCAD), more than the problem of flat runways on sloped terrains.I understand that the tools to do that do not exist yet for FSX (at least for non-professional programmers !)RegardsAlain

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>Hi,>>Sometimes, this kind of problem seems to be caused by the>wrong location of the runway. This is probably the cause for>GVSF (see attached picture). I don't think this runway is>located in the slope of the volcano. Google Earth locates the>runway closer to the sea, but then the runway altitude should>be worse !!Probably both runway location *and* elevation data are inaccurate in the database Microsoft used for GVSF.>It is this kind of problem I try to correct (on FS9, using>AFCAD), more than the problem of flat runways on sloped>terrains.>I understand that the tools to do that do not exist yet for>FSX (at least for non-professional programmers !)>Nah, I am not a professional programmer, but yet I can re-do an airport in FSX to fix that kind of problem. If I can do it, you can.All you need to do is decompile the default FSX bgl containing GVSF, cut and paste that xml code into your new xml file, compile it using FS2004's BGLCOMP, load in AFCAD.Now you have your AFCAD gui to mod your airport. How nice!Make your changes in AFCAD, then save. Take that bgl and decompile *it*. You'll get an xml file, which is nothing more than a simple text file edited using notepad.Consult the SDK on any new FSX features you might want to add, such as BlastFences...and then compile using FSX's BGLCOMP.You be done then. RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case


Rhett

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Rhett,Thanks for your detailed answer.Just an information : which program do you use to decompile a .bgl file to .xml file ? Is it the same program for FS9 and FSX ?Alain

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One of the nice features of FSX is the ability to alter the mesh detail 'on the fly'.I've been playing with it the past couple days. You can lower the detail level while taking off, or near landing - and avoid the worst effects.Then move the slider to display higher resolution while you are in the air.Yes, this alters the immersion factor a little.I'm going to have to look into Scott's mesh fill a bit. That might be a good way to do a series of addon files.The current essential site for working with FSX airports is http://www.fsdeveloper.com/The decompile tools we use are by Winfred Orthmann - bglanalyze.zip in the Avsim library is the latest version.You need BGLComp.exe from the FSX Deluxe BGL Compiler SDK.Information on SDE is on the FSDeveloper forums, also FSX_KML and SBuilder links are there - look under Scenery Design.Burkhard Renk, the developer of My Traffic, has a set of tools to take FSX airports, decompile them, strip out the FSX elements, allow you to edit them with AFCAD2, safe and recompile them with the FSX elements reinserted in the XML file.I have not tested his latest version, but the previous one was a good start.The only extra item you need is FSUIPC so that AFCAD2 will see your aircraft's location in FSX.There are some significant limitations, like it is easy to break the link between parking spots and jetways. But it's a start.XML code and how FS airports are built is not really hard to understand. There is a definite process and order. You do not need a special program to work in XML code - it's just text.As someone stated above, if I can figure it out, anyone can.I am not a programmer, just ask my boss.

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