Future of p3d ?

[psolk 3,040]

12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Not directly but they did in a roundabout way. "There will only be one 64-bit version of Concorde. We are currently designing it for P3D v4/5." . Read into that what you wish.

Opinion, not bias. I still consider it in beta with these huge updates. I will not even consider buying it until those end. I've seen it on other's PC and it looks great but I'm not a fan of streaming a sim and the prospect of having to have a Steam account or an XBox one is not attracting me.

What if P3D went subscription with streaming Google data?   In my opinion that is the only viable future for P3D.  That's the only way they can compete at this point.  Subscription and streaming is a fact of life at this point unfortunately.

Even my company the largest HardWare producer in the world wont sell our HW without a matching subscription anymore.  In a year we also moved into the to 10 software companies in the world from zero software revenue. Stock prioce has doubled.  My customers were up in arms until they realized there was no avoiding it then resistance became futile and just customers "venting" because they couldn't do anything about it...  LM is certainly going to see that recurring revenue model and jump on that bandwagon.  It allows them to show recurring revenue to the street which drives stock price.  

I don't see any way P3D can compete unless they DO move to a streaming model.  

Not to mention, some would consider P3D 5.2 a Beta still.  Incomplete functionality, critical bugs and add-ons that haven't ported over yet.  I still use 4.5HF3 because I consider 5.2 a beta.  LM really needs to step up or their consumer market will be nothing more than laggards holding on to what they've got and never seeing new innovation.  This is of course just my opinion on the future of P3D but if they don't react ands adapt the program will just die a natural death a la FS9 

Edited November 13, 2021 by psolk

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

3 minutes ago, psolk said:

What if P3D went subscription with streaming Google data?   In my opinion that is the only viable future for P3D.  That's the only way they can compete at this point.  Subscription and streaming is a fact of life at this point unfortunately.

Supposition. Until they make a statement I don't have a decision to make. If their military customers demand it then it will happen. We don't matter.

I prefer traditional broadcasters to streaming services. Sky and BT. No Netflix or Amazon Prime in this house. Your internet goes down and bang! No flight sim, no TV. That's progress? Hmmm.

6 minutes ago, psolk said:

Not to mention, some would consider P3D 5.2 a Beta still.  Incomplete functionality, critical bugs and add-ons that haven't ported over yet. 

Who's to blame for the DXGI problems? LM? Nvidia? Microsoft? Take your pick. LM have always released point updates. They don't equate to hundreds of gigabytes of downloads. and most importantly, they're not forced on you unlike MSFS. My only bug bear with v5 is the removal of most parking positions. I have a workaround for that.

[psolk 3,040]

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Supposition. Until they make a statement I don't have a decision to make. If their military customers demand it then it will happen. We don't matter.

I prefer traditional broadcasters to streaming services. Sky and BT. No Netflix or Amazon Prime in this house. Your internet goes down and bang! No flight sim, no TV. That's progress? Hmmm.

Who's to blame for the DXGI problems? LM? Nvidia? Microsoft? Take your pick. LM have always released point updates. They don't equate to hundreds of gigabytes of downloads. and most importantly, they're not forced on you unlike MSFS. My only bug bear with v5 is the removal of most parking positions. I have a workaround for that.

I'm with you, still holding on to my Coax cable with a death grip LOL!!!  With that being said I seem to be using my traditional cable more and more to launch apps that are inevitably streaming LOL...  I will say the move to wireless streaming cable boxes has been wonderful though!!  I can now take my cable box outside, plug it into tv next to the pool with no cables other than power and presto I have TV outside... 

This entire thread is really nothing more than speculation.  Yep, MSFS does things differently.  Realistically there is no way for LM to compete without adopting the same model as MSFS.  I believe I read that the MSFS data equates to over two PETABYTES  Not Giga, not Tera, PETABYTES of data.  There is only one way to get that amount of data to a PC and that is streaming.  That's why GCS, AWS and Azure are printing money right now... 

[micstatic 4,319]

The biggest problem with p3d to me (other than it's starting to look dated) is knowing developer support is limited at best.  It won't be that long until runway numbers change in real life, but we have the old runway numbers in p3d still.  IE, 7L becomes 8L.  I remember staying with FS9 for a long time and running into that problem.  It was a nuisance.  We will also see new airport terminals, and torn down ones that will not be captured in the sim.  I still get enjoyment from the sim, but it seems its days are numbered.  It's biggest selling point is it's biggest vulnerability now.  For years we could update the base sim and maintain maximum compatibility with out addons.  This is lovely, but it also creates a situation where the sim can only evolve so far.  To me the question to be asking, is if msfs or XP12 is the future.  Even if it hurts me to say that. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

5 minutes ago, psolk said:

This entire thread is really nothing more than speculation.  Yep, MSFS does things differently.  Realistically there is no way for LM to compete without adopting the same model as MSFS.  I believe I read that the MSFS data equates to over two PETABYTES  Not Giga, not Tera, PETABYTES of data.  There is only one way to get that amount of data to a PC and that is streaming.  That's why GCS, AWS and Azure are printing money right now... 

Indeed and this is my last post on this. Lunch then a flight in P3D where I will be concentrating on the systems as opposed to gazing out of the window. 😉

Adapt or die. LM May have a decision to make.

MSFS is over 3 Petabytes apparently. Clearly not installable on a PC. But if LM version uses Google maps, has no Steam account then I’ll consider it. But it would require 3rd parties to come on board and that would stretch their resources. Maybe only one of the streaming sims would survive.

[psolk 3,040]

2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Indeed and this is my last post on this. Lunch then a flight in P3D where I will be concentrating on the systems as opposed to gazing out of the window. 😉

Adapt or die. LM May have a decision to make.

MSFS is over 3 Petabytes apparently. Clearly not installable on a PC. But if LM version uses Google maps, has no Steam account then I’ll consider it. But it would require 3rd parties to come on board and that would stretch their resources. Maybe only one of the streaming sims would survive.

Despite my enjoyment in MSFS I'm in the PMDG 777 heading to LLBG from KEWR with Activesky, GSX, Pac-X, PF3, my opencockpit modules controlling the flight deck and enjoying the fantastic lighting in P3D right now as I catch up on MotoGP and wait for IMSA and F1 to start... 

It's funny how from my posts you could assume I was strictly an MSFS bigot but the reality is I'm just still in the closet with P3D while my new mistress and I venture out into the public  😂

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

14 minutes ago, psolk said:

It's funny how from my posts you could assume I was strictly an MSFS bigot but the reality is I'm just still in the closet with P3D while my new mistress and I venture out into the public  😂

Bigot? I don’t label anyone with that word.

There is one thing that would force me to switch to MSFS. FS Labs announcing Concorde for MSFS. But that’s a real long shot unless the conversion is relatively easy.

Enjoy your flight!

[GCBraun 2,392]

I think these images clearly show how much P3D is behind the curve when it comes to graphics:

While I still enjoy the sim, I am not sure there will be anything left to make me use it once the PMDG models are out, especially now that AIG traffic is working reasonably well.

Edited November 13, 2021 by GCBraun

[Christopher Low 5,353]

14 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

I think these images clearly show how much P3D is behind the curve when it comes to graphics.....

...apart from the rather strange "flat" look of the buttons and dials when in direct sunlight in the MSFS version.

[micstatic 4,319]

the lighting is better.  But to be honest I don't think the difference is as radical as you make it out.  Frankly I was a little disappointed when I saw these images this morning.  It's better, but not by as much as you are making it seem.  

[jon b 2,047]

I do think it is very hard to have this discussion without mentioning and comparing MSFS, if it weren’t for MSFS I doubt the future of P3D would even be a topic for discussion.

Those PMDG comparison shots to me were comparisons of the icing , sprinkles , decorations and candles on top of a cake.

Yes the superficial stuff on top is looking better in MSFS. However The body of the P3D cake itself to me at least is a much better quality of homemade sponge with an ample portion of cream and jam , like my mum used to make. The MSFS cake in comparison is rather thin, mass produced with too much sugar and sold in a supermarket to a mass consumer market. 

Those 737s may look similar, albeit one does indeed look nicer, but I’m sure we all agree, it’s what’s underneath , in terms of system depth that counts. If MSFS can emulate P3D for system depth , then all well and good

MSFS if taken in isolation is.. probably a good product , but there is no doubt it’s release cannot be taken in isolation as it has had a major destabilising and negative effect on P3D, both on the reduction in user base and , as a result, the amount of active development from our favourite developers.

P3D will certainly be remaining on my PC for the foreseeable future, however where as once it was was the sole domain of the complex heavy jet simulation that is no longer the case.

Recent XP releases such as the Toliss A340 , flyJsim Q400 and JF BAe146 have shown that XP is more than up to the task of complex airliner simulation. I have the 146 for both XP and P3D and their simulation and performance are almost identical, though I must admit the XP pulls ahead slightly in flight dynamics.

We will have to wait and see how PMDG and QW do with their migrated products and if MSFS will indeed be on a par with the other sim platforms for system simulation. From what I can gather it may not be as straight forward as it was first thought as PMDG’s initial timeline has slipped considerably and QW have been almost silent on their 787 progress,which was originally penned for a 2021 release.

The relationship between the flight simulation enthusiast and LM has always been a symbiotic one, we got access to a living simulation platform and LM got access to a community of enthusiasts willing to test and offer recommendations on how to improve the platform.

There’s no doubt P3D will survive and continue to be developed without us the enthusiast , because of how it’s used by LM and it’s partners as a world simulation platform, it’s use is essential. 

However the more important question should perhaps be can we the complex simulation enthusiast, rather than the casual Xbox user , survive without P3D, because all the complex add on developers have left the platform for the gold rush that is MSFS?

I believe in a P3D world devoid of complex add on developers we may have to start and look elsewhere though for future aircraft developments. 

Personally I can see XP, and in the near future XP12, starting to rise to take on this challenge and become the new home to the complex airliner enthusiast.

As evidence  for this look at the newly released Felis 747-200 on XP, extremely complex and also more importantly very popular and well thought of. Compare this to the just flight 747 classic which seems sadly to be withering on the vine and still not released, I wouldn’t be surprised if they simply decided it was not worth their while to continue with the development as there is now an insufficient market in P3D to recoup development costs, never mind make a profit, which would be a huge shame.

MSFS, I’m not so confident with either, the amount of work that seems to be required to bypass the main simulator in inject systems simulations seems a major stumbling block for developers to undertake. Maybe the promised functionality of the SDK will arrive soon, but we’re already approaching 18 months since it’s release, and that’s a long time to be metaphorically holding your breath, while  at the same time has been chocking P3D add on development.

If all further aircraft development for P3D were  to tragically end tomorrow what I already own on my hard drive is enough to keep me using the simulator along side the others. It’s a solid stable experience which offers some aircraft just not available elsewhere .. for the moment at least.

 

 

[GCBraun 2,392]

2 minutes ago, micstatic said:

the lighting is better.  But to be honest I don't think the difference is as radical as you make it out.  Frankly I was a little disappointed when I saw these images this morning.  It's better, but not by as much as you are making it seem.  

It is nothing less than dramatic. For me the difference is bigger than when you compare FS2004 x FSX:

[GCBraun 2,392]

4 minutes ago, jon b said:

Those 737s may look similar, albeit one does indeed look nicer, but I’m sure we all agree, it’s what’s underneath , in terms of system depth that counts. If MSFS can emulate P3D for system depth , then all well and good

Of course it will be able to. The 737 is not even that complex. MSFS already has the DC-6, which is much harder to operate. Even the CRJ is more challenging...

But I agree that XP12 will also be a very interesting product. I am actively using XP11 with all these new addons.

Edited November 13, 2021 by GCBraun

[micstatic 4,319]

I'm sure it will be much nicer.  But the flat buttons when hit with sunlight aren't helping it.  While not the fault of PMDG, I really hope msfs cleans up the runway lights.  And makes it so they are not on during the day.  

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

I assume some of you use an ATC program if you're dedicated IFR pilots. I couldn't contemplate not having Radar Contact. It's been on my various computers for over 15 years! Sadly, I don't see a way it could work in MSFS.

What are the ATC options like with MSFS? I assume the default is the same horrendous thing it was in FSX and P3D. Has anyone come up with a realistic alternative? RC developers left the scene years ago so they won't and given the complexity of the programming don't expect a rush!