PMDG 737 update

[pete_auau 1,154]

11 hours ago, MySound said:

As the PMDG Addons bring hundreds of hours of fun - I personally don’t care how much it costs. 
The price 2 fun ratio will be great anyways. 
I payed 280$ for my wife and myself just to have snacks and a coffe in Burj Al Arab. And the fun was over after 2 hours. So bring it on PMDG. 

Yep  tend  to agree with you you have  the  addon  for as long  as you want  to use  it, unlike  going  to a Restaurant  its  a recurring  fee 🙂

Edited November 15, 2021 by pete_auau

[WestAir 2,522]

Comment from Captain Randazzo:

Quote

A few folks have asked about the release timeline. I'll have more information on that in another update that is a bit more broad-based.

Sounds like we'll be getting an announcement in the coming weeks that will update us on the release timelines for the 737 and hopefully other PMDG products.

As an aside, PMDG first hinted this bird would be out 4Q20. SelfLoadingCargo predicted they'd update their product 1Q21. I won't even bring up other MSFS projects. I say this to emphasize how tentative release dates are on this platform. A wiser dev (See: FenixSim) would avoid release dates all together.

[bobcat999 8,444]

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

Comment from Captain Randazzo:

Sounds like we'll be getting an announcement in the coming weeks that will update us on the release timelines for the 737 and hopefully other PMDG products.

As an aside, PMDG first hinted this bird would be out 4Q20. SelfLoadingCargo predicted they'd update their product 1Q21. I won't even bring up other MSFS projects. I say this to emphasize how tentative release dates are on this platform. A wiser dev (See: FenixSim) would avoid release dates all together.

I know a lot of people don't like it, but I wouldn't be averse to an 'early access' version, as long as we knew what to expect. 

I am longing for a decent 737 in the sim.  I miss the Zibo one in Xplane, which is superb.

Edited November 15, 2021 by bobcat999

[pstrub 998]

8 hours ago, Keirtt said:

I’m very curious on the relationship with PMDG and Asobo right now. Reading between the lines of some comments that Rabdazzo is making on their official forums makes me believe things are sweet and sour. Some posts there seems to be a lot of upbeat positivity about how great and advanced the platform is and other posts that talk about debugging like it’s the 90s and culture that Asobo has developed of being silent to partners like PMDG. I’m really hoping we don’t see things go south between the two. 

FWIW, Rob just posted some clarifications concerning the current state of MSFS and the frustrations for the developers with it, making it very clear that while there are issues with the way debugging works right now, he's convinced Asobo is making good progress with the promised dev tools, and it's a fantastic platform. Of course this may not be the whole truth, but the points he's making seem legit and make a lot of sense to me:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/152231-12nov21-a-couple-of-raw-unedited-preview-images-for-737-lovers-to-start-your-weekend/page3#post152503

Quoting Rob S Randazzo here:

Quote

Chase-

I do feel it is changing. But for the better, finally- which might sound surprising.

The frustrations that you see in my answers are not frustrations with Asobo or the dev team- let's be clear about that.

My frustration is that 27 months after our initial view behind the magic curtain of MSFS, we are still looking at "mid-to-late 2022" for some critically important development tools that greatly facilitate our effort to bring our products forward into this fantastic platform. MSFS is a massive endeavor and it took some real guts and some solid decision making to build the platform. The version sitting in our laps today is not anywhere close to what is ultimately envisioned and there is a roadmap into the future that is stunning in it's complexity and breathtaking in it's capability. The leadership that drives this thing has to be commended for even having the gall to suggest they could do what they have done- and they have done it well.

But if you allow me the egotism to spin the scope around and look at it from the viewpoint of "Just Lil Ol' PMDG" for a moment, (which at once is both unfair, but is also my natural viewpoint given my position in the relationship) we are nearly 2.5 years beyond our first discussions with MS/Asobo and many of the tools and capabilities that were outlined to us in the beginning have still have not been delivered During the past few months, Asobo has begun to chip away more aggressively at these shortcomings and that is why I say things are improving. Since Update 5 we have slightly better debugging capability, but it is on par with the sort of capability we had back in 1992-or-so: Bit-twiddling in the blind to see what changes we could make work...

The tools we need to program like modern developers are now being promised for mid-2022 and work **is** progressing- so again- that is an improvement!

To give you an idea what it is like: Without these tools, *everything* about what we do becomes miserably complex. The 737 is about 1.25M lines of very thorough, very well tested, modular, reusable code. But a problematic solver function that I spent 90 seconds tuning in Prepar3D took three developers a total of 27 man hours to resolve while working on it in MSFS because we do not have modern debugging tools. Last week it took four developers a total of 40 man hours to do something that, when done in Prepar3D using modern debugging tools takes a single developer approximately 3 minutes if you also include taking time to pat Solo-The-Failed-Show-Dog when she wakes up on her dog-bed next to the desk.

Think of something you do with technology, and now drag it back to the state in which it existed in 1992. That is where we are while working on the 737- so my frustration is palpable at times. But you won't convince me that Asobo and the dev team don't care. I believe they do- but they have a larger agenda that has necessarily driven their priorities over the past couple of years. The tools needed by the development community in which PMDG exists have just been naturally lower on the hierarchy until recently.

"It is what it is," as they say... but it is improving- and that is the important factor to me, today.

 

[fakeflyer737 991]

1 hour ago, pstrub said:

FWIW, Rob just posted some clarifications concerning the current state of MSFS and the frustrations for the developers with it, making it very clear that while there are issues with the way debugging works right now, he's convinced Asobo is making good progress with the promised dev tools, and it's a fantastic platform. Of course this may not be the whole truth, but the points he's making seem legit and make a lot of sense to me:

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/152231-12nov21-a-couple-of-raw-unedited-preview-images-for-737-lovers-to-start-your-weekend/page3#post152503

Quoting Rob S Randazzo here:

 

So bascially dont get your hopes of for a 2021 release, it just isnt going to happen. More like q4 2022. 

[Fiorentoni 4,141]

22 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

Just curious where is this 80 dollar figure you keep coming up with when you have developers with no reputation out there trying to sell unfinished products for 50$ for MSFS? Thinking a PMDG 737 could be available for 80 is just a pipe dream IMO. The PMDG DC-6 sells for 60$ so you can almost expect the NG3 be close to twice of that.

I think I've pretty clearly laid out the reasoning why I think that lower prices are a better choice business-wise on MSFS. The number itself comes out of my head and is connected to Fenix who said that they will probably sell for less than 100 dollars.

[bobcat999 8,444]

3 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

I think I've pretty clearly laid out the reasoning why I think that lower prices are a better choice business-wise on MSFS. The number itself comes out of my head and is connected to Fenix who said that they will probably sell for less than 100 dollars.

Yep.  At the end of the day I am sure PMDG already have a price in their head and that probably won't move much before release, but people who keep quoting they will pay anything for it, or some price above $100 aren't making the chances of it being priced accessibly any better.  Not that they would care I suppose. 

Then again, what 'accessible' pricing means is a whole other argument anyway, but we get the rough idea.

[Gilandred 690]

1 hour ago, fakeflyer737 said:

So bascially dont get your hopes of for a 2021 release, it just isnt going to happen. More like q4 2022. 

On the other hand, not sure why they would have publicly committed to a 2021 release if the “developer tools” were in worse shape back when they said that than they are now.  He seems to speak in riddles sometimes.

[Gilandred 690]

1 minute ago, bobcat999 said:

Yep.  At the end of the day I am sure PMDG already have a price in their head and that probably won't move much before release, but people who keep quoting they will pay anything for it, or some price above $100 aren't making the chances of it being priced accessibly any better.  Not that they would care I suppose. 

Then again, what 'accessible' pricing means is a whole other argument anyway, but we get the rough idea.

I don’t think they use what a handful or less of folks saying what they would pay on a forum to base their pricing strategy for tens of thousands of customers.  I wouldn’t worry about it.

[bobcat999 8,444]

4 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

On the other hand, not sure why they would have publicly committed to a 2021 release if the “developer tools” were in worse shape back when they said that than they are now.  He seems to speak in riddles sometimes.

Yes.  Also, I am not sure where Q4 2022 comes from logically (in FakeFlyers thoughts).  If Q4 2021 was loosely hinted at, then any delay would surely only spill over into Q1 2022?

Edited November 15, 2021 by bobcat999

[Gilandred 690]

2 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

Yes.  Also, I am not sure where Q4 2022 comes from logically.  If Q4 2021 was loosely hinted at, then any delay would surely only spill over into Q1 2022?

The mobs with pitchforks will be out for sure if late 2022 was the new update.  Personally I don’t see that happening.  They already released a study level plane (DC6), and between what Aerosoft and WT accomplished months ago with their CRJ and CJ4 respectively, they should be in good shape already.

[threexgreen 3,135]

1 hour ago, Gilandred said:

On the other hand, not sure why they would have publicly committed to a 2021 release if the “developer tools” were in worse shape back when they said that than they are now.  He seems to speak in riddles sometimes.

The state of the debugging tools was obviously known to them when they came up with the estimate of Q421, so that takes the intricacy of it into account. I don't read what was quoted above as a way of hinting at a new delay at all; he's just explaining the difficulty they currently face in development. If it isn't released in this quarter, I would expect that delay to stem from something other than the debugging process he described, as that isn't getting any more difficult but only getting better. What he is talking about isn't something new that suddenly came up within the last week.

[RobJC 2,069]

18 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Good points. I can't imagine X boxers or casual simmers, sitting in front of their consoles on a 4 hour flight too many times. They will quickly get bored, and want to fly a warbird or something. 

Exactly. And at $75 some of them will buy it and figure that out. Lots of revenue. Few support requests. 

[pmplayer 9,392]

6 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

So bascially dont get your hopes of for a 2021 release, it just isnt going to happen. More like q4 2022. 

Looks allmost like this..🤔

cheers 😉

[JBDB-MD80 1,470]

I am thinking a release of Q2 in 2023 and a reasonable price of 39.99 because like others I can see the future of the development and business strategy from the folks of PMDG