Which spitfire is best?

[Bigbluss 304]

Hey guys,

 

Coming fromIL-2 and DCS I love the various iterations of spitfire on both sims. I'd like to do a tour of the old western front and eastern front in MSFS with a spitfire sim. I know they're entirely different models of Spit, but I'm less interested in the specific model and more in which is the superior simulation. Which would you advise of the following?

 

Aeroplane Heaven - You're virtually there.™ Supermarine Spitfire Mk1a - MSFS

Spitfire L.F Mk IXc for Microsoft Flight Simulator – FlyingIron Simulations 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Bigbluss

[jcomm 5,890]

Bigbluss,

comming from DCS and IL2, stay there in as far as ww2 fighters and their flight dynamics and overall physics modelling goes... Forget MFS, at least for the time being...

Actually forget MFS, FSX / P3D even with A2A and RealAir and even X-Plane...

Edited November 18, 2021 by jcomm

[Bigbluss 304]

Oh really? word not allowed, that's a shame. I do very much value the accurate handling above all else though, so I'll avoid for now 🙂

[sd_flyer 6,032]

11 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Bigbluss,

comming from DCS and IL2, stay there in as far as ww2 fighters and their flight dynamics and overall physics modelling goes... Forget MFS, ate least for the time being...

Actually forget MFS, FSX / P3D even with A2A and RealAir and even X-Plane...

You are very naive if you think DCS and IL2 are superior in this department. There is no perfect sim 🙂

[bobcat999 8,444]

Both of the current MSFS Spitfires (Mk 1 and Mk IX) are excellent. 

If you are used to them in IL2 or DCS, and think they won't be up to scratch compared to them, then fair enough, but for people who have never experienced IL2 or DCS, the aircraft are just fine.

[Nyxx 6,993]

59 minutes ago, Bigbluss said:

Oh really? word not allowed, that's a shame. I do very much value the accurate handling above all else though, so I'll avoid for now 🙂

Well I think JComm is being a litle harsh.

Your asking whats the Best Spitfire within MSFS, are you not? Whats the best Spitfire in any sim is a diffrent question. 

I have Both and No, there not as good as the DCS version, but then DCS does not look anything like MSFS? Does it! 🙂

So to answer your question from a DCS user. The MKI is my goto. I will not fly the MKIX very much at all, as IMO the MKI has a great "feel" to it. The Milviz FG-1D is also very good.

MSFS is not for fireing weapons or droping bombs, but the Spitfire also does not do any of that now, To not enjoy flying around the UK very low in the MKI is a big miss. Its Wonderfull. It's no toy when your in a cross wind takeoff or laning. It might not have the polish that the DCS/IL ones do, but I would be surprized if you did not enjoy it for what it is in MSFS.

If your coming from a stand point of DCS then am with you on Mil jet flighters. But old WW2 warbirds fit imo within MSFS and what there used for IRL now.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Nyxx

[Dillon 2,197]

48 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Bigbluss,

comming from DCS and IL2, stay there in as far as ww2 fighters and their flight dynamics and overall physics modelling goes... Forget MFS, ate least for the time being...

Actually forget MFS, FSX / P3D even with A2A and RealAir and even X-Plane...

Nothing can be said by any of us in this department if we haven't flew the real birds.  As a pilot myself both FS2020 versions are great.  For combat DCS and IL2 are great but coming in here stating flight dynamics are better or worse between sims and you don't fly in the real world or have flown a real war bird in the real world is crazy.  FS2020 has been amazing on so many fronts flight dynamics being no exception now (compared to what we had).  Both Spitfires offered for this sim are two generations of the same model and are very well done. 

[jcomm 5,890]

47 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

You are very naive if you think DCS and IL2 are superior in this department. There is no perfect sim 🙂

Well, I do think they're on a different league indeed... It's up to various factors, ranging from the flight modelling approach used on those sims, and whatever we have in MFS and company... plus the fact that for instance DCS has tried hard to bring FD data originating from various NACA and similar documents into their models, and use CFD for the unavailable data covering specific flight situations / regimes.

I should point out though that Flying Iron is very receptive to comments and suggestons, and for instance they promptly updated the pitching moment due to flap deflection and now, just like the real Spitfire, the FI Spitfire Mk IX does pitch down on flap deployment !

I believe Aeroplane Heaven tried hard to mimmic the taxiing characteristics, using a single brake lever and rudder inputs for asymmetric braking. Since I do not have that model I can't say how it feels...

I only have the Flying Iron Spitfire for MFS. I can't say I don't like it, but from ground handling to some flight characteristics that are well documented about the modeled variants, not their fault but rather the limitations imposed by the underlying FDE, it really feels short from the offers available for either IL-2 Great Battles or DCS.

But, since they aren't really that expensive, nothing better than trying it yourself @Bigbluss, and judge from your own experience 🙂

I am really looking forward into the upcoming gliders and weather for soaring... Unfortunately each and every model / simulator I have tried along my life, with the remarkable exceptions of Flight Unlimited, somehow Silent Wings and also Condorsoaring, fall really short from the real thing when it comes to gliders, which I would say it's strange, since they even don't have to bother with the engines and their arodynamics effects... 😕

Edited November 18, 2021 by jcomm

[sd_flyer 6,032]

1 minute ago, jcomm said:

Well, I do think they're on a different league indeed... It's up to various factors, ranging from the flight modelling approach used on those sims, and whatever we have in MFS and company... plus the fact that for instance DCS has tried hard to bring FD data originating from various NACA and similar documents into their models, and use CFD for the unavailable data covering specific flight situations / regimes.

I only have the Flying Iron Spitfire for MFS. I can't say I don't like it, but from ground handling to some flight characteristics that are well documented about the modeled variants, not their fault but rather the limitations imposed by the underlying FDE, it really feels far from the offers available for either IL-2 Great Battles or DCS.

But, since they aren't really that expensive, nothing better than trying it yourself @Bigbluss, and judge from your own experience 🙂

I am really looking forward into the upcoming gliders and weather for soaring... Unfortunately each and every model / simulator I have tried along my life, with the remarkable exceptions of Flight Unlimited, somehow Silent Wings and also Condorsoaring, fall really short from the real thing 😕

I actually know some developers from DCS and IL2. They all come from 1C company and original developer team lead  Oleg Maddox that made very first version of IL2 sim. We used to have a lot of discussions about flight modeling. Trust me! With best of their intentions their vision of flight model is lacking in some departments. I have both DCS and Il2 that include Spitfire.  Each sim is compromise!

[jcomm 5,890]

18 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

I actually know some developers from DCS and IL2. They all come from 1C company and original developer team lead  Oleg Maddox that made very first version of IL2 sim. We used to have a lot of discussions about flight modeling. Trust me! With best of their intentions their vision of flight model is lacking in some departments. I have both DCS and Il2 that include Spitfire.  Each sim is compromise!

That makes two of us 🙂 - regarding il2, dcs and their dev teams - since I've been playing sims since I interacted with what I believe was, back then, Robert Randazzo in the simulations BBSs/newsgroups... and both used ATP 🙂

I can, nonetheless, make you happy by saying that I do find, at least in some aspects, the FI Spitfre in MFS performing closely to what is documented for the real thing than it's A2A and RealAir versions for fsx / p3d...

And, of course, every sim is a compromise... For instance, IMO IL2 does ground physics overall better than DCS, but then there are many performance aspects of the warbirds that look closer to rw data in DCS thanin IL2, and so on...

And, I am now tempted to buy the Aeroplane Heaven version too, just to be able to test it 🙂

Edited November 18, 2021 by jcomm

[Bobsk8 12,539]

48 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Nothing can be said by any of us in this department if we haven't flew the real birds.  As a pilot myself both FS2020 versions are great.  For combat DCS and IL2 are great but coming in here stating flight dynamics are better or worse between sims and you don't fly in the real world or have flown a real war bird in the real world is crazy.  FS2020 has been amazing on so many fronts flight dynamics being no exception now (compared to what we had).  Both Spitfires offered for this sim are two generations of the same model and are very well done. 

I love these posters that knock the flight characteristics of aircraft in sims, but if you took them up in a GA aircraft in real life , and did a couple of spins, they would probably pass out. Easy to be an expert in aviation sitting behind a PC monitor. 

[bobcat999 8,444]

58 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Nothing can be said by any of us in this department if we haven't flew the real birds.  As a pilot myself both FS2020 versions are great.  For combat DCS and IL2 are great but coming in here stating flight dynamics are better or worse between sims and you don't fly in the real world or have flown a real war bird in the real world is crazy...

Dillon, please!... You are making too much sense for this forum!  

[Bigbluss 304]

Well, I certainly didn't mean to start this argument! Hahaha.

Guess I'll buy the mkix first as I'm more familiar with it.

[jcomm 5,890]

55 minutes ago, Bigbluss said:

Well, I certainly didn't mean to start this argument! Hahaha.

Guess I'll buy the mkix first as I'm more familiar with it.

Don't worry 🙂

When I got my PPL there were no desktop simulators ( 1980 ) so I didn't have to criticize, by comparison, different models in different flight simulation platforms... Two years later ( 1982 ) I started using flight simulator, and I still do 🙂 although since I fly gliders I avoid those in flightsims because usually I do with those sims what my avatar nickmane reads, after using them with gliders for a while, with a couple of exceptions !

It's not an expensive add-on - try it yourself... and make your own judgement... I can enjoy the FI Spitfire IX in MFS, but I do prefer the IL-2 and DCS variants, problem being I don't find any use for them on those flight simulation platforms since I don't like to play combat games and rather prefer to play being an airline pilot or even, now very possible with MFS, simply finding nice places to fly in it's gorgeous scenery, around the World - even better if possible with aircraft models that can be as realistic as a desktop flightsim can get.

I do look forward for their gliders and soaring, hopefully soaring weather too, another area where most sims, again with a couple exceptions, have long been lacking.

Some basic but interesting read if you want to run some comparison tests:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/NACA-Spitfire-V-Flying.pdf

Edited November 18, 2021 by jcomm