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16 hours ago, Farlis said:

People's  overblown expectations never cease to amaze me.

Completely agree. 

The good thing is that Asobo probably doesn't read Avsim, otherwise they would have probably given up in frustration already. 

People's entitlement is through the roof.

It's kind of embarrassing. 

 

Edited by Ricardo41
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4 hours ago, Wildblue said:

It may also be that people are too young or to new to flight simulator to fully appreciate the luxury we now have with an active development team at all. They want it all fast nowadays because it's a game and the game must work, like all other games do (incomparable).

We just want updates to bring improvement, not regression. We don't want and we don't ask anything FAST. SU6 was perfectly fine.

On the contrary, we would like them to take things SLOWER and release updates only when they are ready. This time it would have taken literally 10 minutes to realize that SU7 was not ready for release.

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8 hours ago, Wildblue said:

It may also be that people are too young or to new to flight simulator to fully appreciate the luxury we now have with an active development team at all. They want it all fast nowadays because it's a game and the game must work, like all other games do (incomparable).

While the oldies remember tweaking fs98, fs2004 or fsx night after night to get 3 fps more out of it, without any official support being there!

I love it, sometimes we are old grumps, sometimes wee are too young to remember. Well, I like it better being young. Young of 4 decades of simming with about a score of sims😋 !

I won't add much to what @MrFuzzy excellently said above. 

I don't see what you call "active development" and that I would call "agitation", has brought to my sim since the release (speaking of the Sim Updates not the World Updates). The bugs and lack of useful features in the UI present at release are still mostly here.  Shoehorning the code in the Box has brought a little more smoothness (with side effects)  which seems to dissipate with subsequent updates.  The sim was good enough then, is still really nice but every update is an exercise in frustration and wasted time for not much,  for many we could do without.

The good will and dedication of the dev team is not in cause. The insane marketing policy to release half baked SU is.

Edited by Dominique_K
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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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3 hours ago, MrFuzzy said:

We just want updates to bring improvement, not regression. We don't want and we don't ask anything FAST. SU6 was perfectly fine.

On the contrary, we would like them to take things SLOWER and release updates only when they are ready. This time it would have taken literally 10 minutes to realize that SU7 was not ready for release.

What you write makes 0 sense. Are you seriously suggesting that the sim is not in a substantially better position compared to a year ago? Let me remind you of the massive improvement in performance, for example.

Obviously, given the complexity of the various parts (e.g. AI, weather, flight models, etc.) some things simply take longer to work out than others. There will be kinks, bugs, etc. Seems par for the course.

Quote: "we don't ask anything FAST."

People are screaming about a hotfix, like, a couple of days after SU7 was released.

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I see the words 'entitled' and 'entitlement' being used again.

So yes...  What makes some of you guys think you are entitled to expect a working product, even though you paid good money for it, give Asobo a break!

And why do you think you are entitled to expect a sim without regressions, then feel entitled enough to ask for a hotfix?  The absolute cheek of it!

OK, so some things were working fine, then they get broken, but that's life isn't it?  You have to take these things without complaining sometimes or it makes you a whingey-whiner.

I hope they don't read these forums as the way you are going you could upset Asobo and they could ditch their multi-million pound contract.  

Only 15 months have gone.  OK, my Hamster was born and died in that time, and he didn't get to see the finished sim, but for heavens sake, have some patience! 

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I think people start to realize that updates are mostly directed at  their financial benefit. Always to cater for visual allure that could bring new users ($) into sim.

Things that cannot bring instant visual gratification are neglected.  It's nice to hear that sim is a 10 year project, but if you spend whole 10 years producing only improvements aimed at showcasing sexy screenshots and  stunning videos and not at the broken stuff and never fulfilled promises, it is somehow cheating  the existent user base.

 

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2 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

I see the words 'entitled' and 'entitlement' being used again.

 

 

Argument of  those having not much to say otherwise (extremely polite here to respect Avsim ToS and moderators blood pressure). We are entitled, my friend, accept it, entitled, or grumpy, or too young to remember, or elitist or whatnot. This always brings a large smile on my face : to be accused of being "entitled" as it was something bad, of course I am entitled,as a user, to have a good sim in working order not in shambles every so often.

Entitled and proud of it 😅

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Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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29 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

What you write makes 0 sense. Are you seriously suggesting that the sim is not in a substantially better position compared to a year ago? Let me remind you of the massive improvement in performance, for example.

Obviously, given the complexity of the various parts (e.g. AI, weather, flight models, etc.) some things simply take longer to work out than others. There will be kinks, bugs, etc. Seems par for the course.

Quote: "we don't ask anything FAST."

People are screaming about a hotfix, like, a couple of days after SU7 was released.

First of all I see more entitlement in a statement like "What you write makes 0 sense". We argue, we have different opinions and positions. It's not like "what I say makes sense and what you say doesn't".

As for the improvement: yes, the sim has got a lot more content and the performance is better than release, mostly because they moved the glass cockpit Java cr4p from the main thread. It could be done since the start and instead it took them one year and it came out with SU5 which along with this improvement brought a lot of other issues and needed not 1 but 2 hotfixes.

When I mentioned regression I was talking about SU7 VS SU6, SU5 before the hotfixes VS SU4, not regression across all the updates in the last 15 months of course... otherwise the entire team would have been fired I guess.

 

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Let's simply compare the development trajectory of MSFS 2020 with that of the "other flight simulators".

Thank you. And case closed.

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27 minutes ago, versus said:

I think people start to realize that updates are mostly directed at  their financial benefit. Always to cater for visual allure that could bring new users ($) into sim.

I doubt that. Look at the numerous SDK updates allowing development of , e.g., the PMDG 737, and earlier the AS CRJ. No doubt, release of the 737 will bring new users to MSFS, but in the end any improvement including availability of good add-on planes will add value to MSFS and bring MS additional $$$.

As it should be.

Kind regards, Michael

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I worked in IT for the best part of 40 years.

Occasionally, a mistake would slip through and a system would go wrong; the end users could get quite upset. I got it fixed as soon as possible, apologised, and tried to avoid any recurrence.

I didn't refer to the end-users as 'entitled'.

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5 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

People's entitlement is through the roof.

It's kind of embarrassing. 

 

If begin entitled is wanting a fix for a regression to the most basic control device then colour me entitled, it would be good if people like you bothered to understand the issues some of us are facing instead of labelling us from your high horses eh!

Edited by MarcG
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18 minutes ago, pmb said:

I doubt that. Look at the numerous SDK updates allowing development of , e.g., the PMDG 737, and earlier the AS CRJ. No doubt, release of the 737 will bring new users to MSFS, but in the end any improvement including availability of good add-on planes will add value to MSFS and bring MS additional $$$.

As it should be.

Kind regards, Michael

MSFS value for Microsoft has three parameters

- it participates to the goodwill of the company as it has a strong image in the public but this is very theoretical

- the sales potential of the sim, and it is highly probable that the bulk of them are in now. We have passed  the gaussian peak so to speak. The PMDG 737 will bring some P3D hardliners but <cough, cough> are they many of them left now 😄 ? Oops , sorry, we love you guys ! 

- the sales of MS branded visually nice, easy on simmers DLC and the commission on 3PD products. 

Some posters have reported that Neumann said that they would slow down the pace of SU releases. It makes then sense, business-wise, and not just to answer our update fatigue.

I cannot judge the SDK developments. No real technical ability. But I read the updates like you and have not seen anything ground breaking. Randazzo who is the smartest of them all, has well understood that to do his products . He cannot expect a strong SDK, he had to become a « partner ».  I wonder whether it is free to be a partner btw 😁

 

 

 

 


Dominique

Simming since 1981 -  4770k@3.7 GHz with 16 GB of RAM and a 1080 with 8 GB VRAM running a 27" @ 2560*1440 - Windows 10 - Warthog HOTAS - MFG pedals - MSFS Standard version with Steam

 

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48 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

And case closed.

The case is fully open on avsim, and has a broken lock. 

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I'll put it in simplistic terms;

Imagine your local garage offered you free service for your car, when you get it back it's been upgraded in various areas, polished a bit, but there's a fundamental control mechanism that is key to driving and it's not working as it did before the service.

What do you do?

I'll answer that for you; You complain until the issue is fixed.

Why then is it that gaming software Devs are "immune" to complaints when things like this happen? Why should the "entitled" shut up? We/you wouldn't in any other form of service, so why here?

Asobo have broken a very basic control mechanism which was working just fine in all previous Sim Updates, please learn to understand the severity of this singular issue (amongst many others) and then, maybe just maybe you'll begin to understand the frustration and outright unbelief that this was allowed to happen in the first place and that we're demanding a Hotfix - the same way I/you would demand the garage sorted your car out, get it?!

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HP Reverb G2 - Windows 11 64bit, Gigabyte Z590 Aorus Elite Mobo, i7-10700KF CPU, Gigabyte 3070ti GPU, 32gig Corsair 3600mhz RAM, SSD x2 + M.2 SSD 1tb x1

Saitek X45 HOTAS - Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals - Logitech Flight Yoke - Homemade 3 Button & 8-directional Joystick Box, SNES Controller (used as a Button Box - Additional USB Numpad (used as a Button Box)

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