Asobo Is The Greatest Flightsim Company In History

[Dominique_K 10,143]

I am too old (and a male too !) to don a miniskirt and agitate fluffy pompoms. I love this sim and if I do not share the bombastic topic title I cannot but see that it is the best sim for me (YMMV) I’ve ever flown. OTOH  I said it for any other sim before. This is called progress.

But I am not blind as not to see after the  flurry of flawed updates that quality control is not implemented not because of Asobo but because it doesn’t fit the MS scheme. To be in the news once a month, MS doesn’t want to be hindered by QC and crazy testers. They want to show that they do something to stimulate the sales of the core product and the DLC shop,  and they do anything even at the cost of degrading  the sim experience of users from one version to the other.

I have had robust disagreements with @simbolin the early times of MSFS, still dont agree with all he says, but his post on the P3D forum (see below) , along with @F737NG’s, is to be meditated because they dissect rather interestingly some of the issues. I extract this quote that confirms what I came to think : 

we have requested many times to Asobo to please implement a proper BETA testing program ... unfortunately their response is clear, this sits with Microsoft and that they have requested this already many times.. so.. their hands are tied as much as ours.

Make no mistake, this is not only about the developers but about us too, the simmers. Do you think that SU7 has brought any specific added value ? I don’t. Do you think that SU7 has brought us inconveniences ? I do. 

If MS listen to anything it is not to their customers it is to their business plan. Not a bad one for their bottom line btw. Not a bad one for us simmers as it has brought to life this sim But it might be time that they revisit it. And we have to say it.  

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Dominique_K

[Lord Farringdon 493]

9 hours ago, 109Sqn said:

Threads like this:

Haha.

We all know the dogs name is Asobo. Anyone who can make progress on an MS hamster wheel (no matter how tortured), is doing ok in my books! 😁. Keep it up little guy. We're all rooting for you!! 

[simbol 5,819]

32 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I have had robust disagreements with @simbolin the early times of MSFS, still dont agree with all he says, but his post on the P3D forum (see below) , along with @F737NG’s, is to be meditated because they dissect rather interestingly some of the issues. I extract this quote that confirms what I came to think

I know you did, I hope you appreciate I was just providing insight to things from a different perspective.. it was never personal.

Asobo developers are incredible dedicated and passionate about what they do, however as I have pointed out many times.. they are a contractor to Microsoft.. and they have legal obligations + deadlines to meet.. I don't blame them for anything going wrong.. they have been put under enormous pressure and far too tight deadlines in my personal opinion.

Adding to your comment, follow this post... https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/idea/2070/developer-beta-program.html

All the best,

S.

Edited November 26, 2021 by simbol

[Nyxx 6,993]

13 minutes ago, simbol said:

I know you did, I hope you appreciate I was just providing insight to things from a different perspective.. it was never personal.

Asobo developers are incredible dedicated and passionate about what they do, however as I have pointed out many times.. they are a contractor to Microsoft.. and they have legal obligations + deadlines to meet.. I don't blame them for anything going wrong.. they have been put under enormous pressure and far too tight deadlines in my personal opinion.

Adding to your comment, follow this post... https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/idea/2070/developer-beta-program.html

All the best,

S.

Well at least we know why Asobo scores so many own goals now. Thank you Simbol.

[March Hare 720]

@Dominique_Kand @simbol-- Absolutely. And this is why I keep repeating, and will keep repeating, the fact Asobo are directed by Microsoft on how this project progresses, what they are to work on at any given time, what they can and can't do. And that they will undoubtedly be as frustrated with glaring bugs getting through to release builds while they are still trying to resolve them.

The update and release schedule for this sim -- and considering how much more complex it is than many other projects -- has been ludicrous. Asobo have had little chance to even rework the core engine (all the limiting legacy code that needs to be rewritten for contemporary hardware) while being tasked with adding more and more new stuff.

Honestly, publishers can sometimes shoot themselves (and the frustrated dev team) in the foot, then damage public perception in the process.

[Ricardo41 5,949]

25 minutes ago, March Hare said:

publishers can sometimes shoot themselves (and the frustrated dev team) in the foot, then damage public perception in the process.

Please provide solid evidence that the public perception of either Asobo, Microsoft, or MSFS 2020 is "damaged", and I am not talking about a half dozen posters on avsim. Sales figures definitely suggest otherwise. And in the end this is what counts: no sales no simulator.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Ricardo41

[simbol 5,819]

32 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Honestly, publishers can sometimes shoot themselves (and the frustrated dev team) in the foot, then damage public perception in the process.

Asobo relationship with 3rd party developers is actually remarkable given the circumstances. Just one of many examples: https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/questions/3914/su7-build-project-is-totally-broken.html?

There I was having a proper rant after SU7 release, although I tried to be as polite as possible, I couldn't avoid to put and show my frustrations during my post.. I admit I should have waited perhaps a little longer and revise my text, but well I am a human after all.

Even after my writing being a bit harsh, Eric (Asobo Dev) responded very quickly and took responsibility for what happened, this shows the level of dedication from Asobo developers.. it takes a lot of courage to come forward like that and explains what happens via a "public" forum to provide some feedback. He has been in touch since then confirming the issues, etc.

Unfortunately we are still waiting for a fix.. but as I understand, he is trying his best to provide it to us (3rd party devs) as soon as possible.. my guess? he needs approval to get it public.. our biggest fears as developers is of course having to wait until SU8 to return SDK functionality as it was at SU6.. we are hoping this will not be the case.. at least I have some comfort in my mind Eric is trying as hard as he can to support us.

Chaps, the message here is, Asobo are not the bad guys.. neither your 3rd party developers when addo-on's break.. we both are working hard to get things done and stable.. if you ask me where things are going, I think there is a bit more pain ahead of us, this is a necessary pain so management process and faults can be demonstrated and escalated to proper channels, causing radical changes to correct the situation and move things in the right direction.

This is normal with any large corporation such as Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. Even Joerg needs to get things approved, the guy Joerg reports to, also needs things to get approved, and that guy also needs to get things approved.. and so on.. you get my meaning? sometimes corporate environments are so big that unfortunately causes these type of nonsense.. 

S.

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by simbol

[Rocky_53 1,579]

21 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

1. All-in-one simulator that pretty much worked out of the box on day one.
2. Excellent performance, even on lowend hardware
3. Update after update with great new content
4. WT
5. A vibrant modding community
6. Very decent default aircraft made better and better by aforementioned modding community, example: Robert Young, mixMugs, Dakfly, Tommy's DA62, WT
7. The Xbox platform, thus ensuring a much larger user base.

Disclaimer: not everything works as it should , blah blah, bugs are still there, things need improvement blah blah.

pretty much worked out of the box on day one ??  

[Nyxx 6,993]

13 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Please provide solid evidence that the public perception of either Asobo, Microsoft, or MSFS 2020 is "damaged", and I am not talking about a half dozen posters on avsim. Sales figures definitely suggest otherwise. And in the end this is what counts: no sales no simulator.

Wow..

[Pegaso 53]

O. m. G.

[Tierborn 188]

21 hours ago, Sethos said:

Been quite a few of these, always comes as this awkward counter-push when a community is giving feedback and critique on a developer's latest blunders. Then they feel the need to defend a corporation, for some reason. Notice how they always interject a sort of attitude around it as well, like saying "bla bla" when addressing the core issue of the negative feedback to dismiss it or just use silly terms like "haters", again, to simply be dismissive in the most intellectually dishonest way possible. 

"........Defend a corporation, for some reason."     

Why, because the sim is good.  Some folks complain on just about everything.   Additionally, you don't see that you are the flip side of that coin.  You post has the same attitude, the hypocrisy is deep here.   Finally, a corporation is made of people and they need to know sometimes that their work is being appreciated even in the midst of daily complaints about how bad the sim is (by some folks on the forums)

[bobcat999 8,478]

Wow!  Wow Wow!  The forum post links provided by simbol are massively revealing. 
Saying some things are already fixed at their end, but no date on when they will roll them out.  Frustrated developers saying 'just push the XXX update!'

I still have a different take on this. There are no 'bad guys', but no matter how Asobo interact with Microsoft, the issues with SU7 are totally theirs. 
Some of the regressions defy belief in terms of quality control.  I am not on about being slow adding the new features, but purely regressions.

How on earth some of the things get messed up I just cannot fathom, especially when they make out they were not intending to change them so they don't know what happened.
One example being the terrible colour banding introduced recently in the clouds, sky and around the sun.
The best all round flight sim in the world (which I actually believe) is looking a bit off colour at the moment - please excuse the pun!

[Dominique_K 10,143]

25 minutes ago, simbol said:

 

 

This is normal with any large corporation such as Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. Even Joerg needs to get things approved, the guy Joerg reports to, also needs things to get approved, and that guy also needs to get things approved.. and so on.. you get my meaning? sometimes corporate environments are so big that unfortunately causes these type of nonsense.. 

S.

 

I have worked for and with huge entities all my life. And Microsoft is indeed  another bureaucracy of sort.  I also think that Asobo and Neumann may have gone to the corporate heads to get the funding in 2015/2016 with a nice pilot and an insane schedule too. Now, they have to deliver. 

But this is besides the point. which is to say loudly, in our small corner, that we would welcome a change of pace. And better quality.

51 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Honestly, publishers can sometimes shoot themselves (and the frustrated dev team) in the foot, then damage public perception in the process.

Yes Marc this is a danger for the product. But I think that it is going to change. Not because they listen to us but because the ineluctable declining rate of  sales growth will make updates not rentable as a tool to boost them.

There will come a time soon enough when they will be busy preparing Windows 11 MSFS v2 and crank only DLC.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Dominique_K

[andy1252 3,859]

@Dominique_K, just a quick one about your "tough love" response and your post a couple above this one.

I fully agree that bugs and even just opinions need to be reported, but they need to be reported where they matter - to Asobo, and they need to be fairly concise and accurate (i.e. what is actually happening). What I was posting about was the fairly pathetic and pre-adolescent sarcasm and bitching that pops up here from certain folk whenever their particular point of view is challenged (as they apparently see it). I'm certainly not going to name names, and fully recognise that one man's witty bon-mot can be construed as another man's crass sarcasm, but I don't think it can be denied that it gets a bit childish in here sometimes. I don't stick folk on 'ignore' because even those whom I consider prone to these hissy fits still also contribute good stuff. But there are times when this feels more like a kindergarten than a forum of grown-ups.

Airing opinions is one of the primary functions of this and any other forum. And I certainly agree with a lot of the calmer comments about the effects of some of the various updates we've had. But I'm also aware that these effects are a long way off universal. I can't remember which updates in particular have had which effect, but I have certainly experienced major degradation in my sim following at least one update which lasted fully until the next update. I also know that many others did not suffer from the problems I was having. Conversely, I have sailed through some updates that have apparently caused massive problems to other users. And there have been, and continue to be, minor but still very irritating issues with some of these updates. I'm not denying the issues by any means, just the way some folk respond to them.

And as far as the Asobo folk themselves are viewed here, all I can say is that I've never met any of them or attended any of their meetings with or without any Microsoft staff. From what I've seen on the videos I've watched they all strike me as very clever and dedicated folk. Not having been in the room I don't feel I'm qualified to speak to any motives behind what does or does not happen and how it happens. I personally haven't had much faith in Microsoft's motives or behaviour over the years, but even that seems to be improving now post Balmer. But I'm sure not going to waste my metaphorical breath airing my frustrations at Microsoft on a forum.

I'm replying this to you Dominique, purely because of your previous comment. Please don't think I'm including you in my juvenile category - I know you're a fan of the sim and I enjoy your posts.

And that really is all I'm going to say on this now.

 

[March Hare 720]

35 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Please provide solid evidence that the public perception of either Asobo, Microsoft, or MSFS 2020 is "damaged", and I am not talking about a half dozen posters on avsim. Sales figures definitely suggest otherwise. And in the end this is what counts: no sales no simulator.

No need. It's just a generalised example of what can happen. Public perception can be damaged.

Although, I wonder why you discount the negative reactions clearly visible on these forums (which I'm not going to spend time compiling here, in this thread) and the official forums as "public perception". All users are "the public" and their perception counts, regardless of whether you agree with others. And, believe me, I don't agree with all of the negativity (I thought that was pretty obvious from my posts here).