Asobo Is The Greatest Flightsim Company In History

[ADamiani 470]

On 11/25/2021 at 3:29 PM, enright said:

After all this time, I still say the Flight Unlimited series had the best feeling flight model. It was hard to put your finger on, but there was a just a little something - a jen ne sais quoi, if you will, about their flight model that made it more believable, more real, than anything I've seen before or since.

The same company produced Ultima Underworld, System Shock, and Theif - all way ahead of their time. 

Foul play here. Did you really have to mention two of the games I have loved most? Total immersion, realism, innovative solutions, depth. Flight Unlimited had an ATC that actually worked. Ultima Underworld was pure magic.

All this on the modest, clunky, awfully expensive hardware we had at that time. Fiddling with config.sys and autoexec.bat to match the interrupt you selected with jumpers on the SoundBlaster card .... And we couldn't Google anything: Google didn't exist. We had the pretty useless Gopher, we made connection via beeping modems and some obscure trumpet socket provider app.

And they designed and programmed those masterpieces. Pure genius.

A.

[Ricardo41 5,949]

1 hour ago, RXP said:

 

😂

Kidding apart, I agree with a lot of you that Asobo is taking more often than not an unwarranted blame.

And to @Ricardo41 , thank you for your appreciation, this is much appreciated!

I've owned most of your products over the years and have gotten probably thousands, maybe even tens of thousands,  of hours of enjoyment out of them. I hope you guys can bring your avionics to MSFS!

[Sethos 4,333]

1 hour ago, eslader said:

Because this corporation is making a product we want, resulting in other corporations making products we also want, and it'd be nice if overly negative whineposts didn't torpedo their reputation such that sales drop and they, and the other corporations, stop making products we want?

So your take on this is that no criticism or feedback is allowed, we need to be very gentle with the developer to not "torpedo their reputation", when they release broken updates they don't bother testing. What in God's name is going, have we finally reached safe space levels on Avsim? 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Sethos

[scotchegg 4,186]

1 hour ago, Sethos said:

So your take on this is that no criticism or feedback is allowed,

That is in no way what they said. Why is it some of you react to counterpoints that your criticisms are ‘overly-negative’ (not wrong) with howls of ‘big brother is coming to cancel me!’? Not very reasonable.

[RichUK 474]

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

I've owned most of your products over the years and have gotten probably thousands, maybe even tens of thousands,  of hours of enjoyment out of them. I hope you guys can bring your avionics to MSFS!

Yeah I owned RXP stuff too. I remember a bunch of us being blown away by the quality back in the day. Share your hopes.

[RichUK 474]

2 hours ago, Sethos said:

So your take on this is that no criticism or feedback is allowed, we need to be very gentle with the developer to not "torpedo their reputation", when they release broken updates they don't bother testing. What in God's name is going, have we finally reached safe space levels on Avsim? 

Agreed. I very much doubt a few simmers (rightly) complaining about the broken stuff and lack of QA will have an affect on their sales. If we are able to push them to be better then this sim will be more successful. I guarantee Asobo have thick enough skins, and take the criticism as constructive, even if some people don't.

[MDFlier 2,031]

9 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

You support companies that release flawed products?

 

7 hours ago, Sethos said:

So your take on this is that no criticism or feedback is allowed, we need to be very gentle with the developer to not "torpedo their reputation", when they release broken updates they don't bother testing. What in God's name is going, have we finally reached safe space levels on Avsim? 

Criticism is fine, but some of the posts on here read like Asobo has abducted the poster's daughter. 

Negative comments can be made without people coming across as entitled little kids. We're discussing a piece of entertainment software here. People act like they are entitled to perfection just because they shelled out a couple of bucks. No software is perfect. Most of it gets released and stays exactly the same as it was in release date throughout its entire life. At least MSFS is getting improved at a steady pace. 

Nobody wants a "safe space". All we want is for people to react in a manner proportional to the "problem". 

If you don't like the sim,  just delete it and go back to P3D or XP. Why bash the devs who are doing a great job?  The sim will get to where we all want it to be in due time. 

[MarcG 2,956]

2 hours ago, MDFlier said:

 

Criticism is fine, but some of the posts on here read like Asobo has abducted the poster's daughter. 

Negative comments can be made without people coming across as entitled little kids. We're discussing a piece of entertainment software here. People act like they are entitled to perfection just because they shelled out a couple of bucks. No software is perfect. Most of it gets released and stays exactly the same as it was in release date throughout its entire life. At least MSFS is getting improved at a steady pace. 

Nobody wants a "safe space". All we want is for people to react in a manner proportional to the "problem". 

If you don't like the sim,  just delete it and go back to P3D or XP. Why bash the devs who are doing a great job?  The sim will get to where we all want it to be in due time. 

The thing is I don't see anyone asking for perfection, personally speaking I'm just asking for updates to not regress areas of the Sim almost every single release. That's the thing that burns the brain and causes the outrage the most for me, I mean what are we 14-15 months from release and updates are still rolling areas backwards, that's simply not good enough on any level regardless of whether it's a computer game or not.

When these regressions happen this constantly then you need to expect people to get upset, they will rightly or wrongly throw their toys, they will rant & rave. Ultimately they are *entitled* to a product that works as it did previously, not one that actually gets worse in areas. We all want progression of the title, I've got the patience of a saint when it comes to certain features spread out over their "10 year plan", but I will not stand for constant schoolboy issues and regressions when they simply should NOT be happening in the first place - two steps forward one step back is the incorrect approach.

Having been involved in gaming since the 80s and lucky enough to be on the inside of a gaming development team, I'm more than aware of how hard it is to create these pieces of art that we spend our free time in. But I also know that developers, in general, do their utmost to avoid releasing updates that go backwards and if they do they communicate and Hotfix ASAP. Microsoft/Asobo have, in my eyes, got this whole process appallingly wrong.  In so my gaming/simulation years, I've *never* seen a product treated the way MSFS is with regards to the Beta process and ultimately Update cycle. Those blatant flaws cause people (me!) to bang our heads against the wall, constantly, practically every update.

It's become a norm with this Sim; instead of looking forward to what an update brings, people are far more concerned with what the update will break - *that is what needs to change.*

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by MarcG

[Dominique_K 10,138]

9 minutes ago, MarcG said:

 

It's become a norm with this Sim; instead of looking forward to what an update brings, people are far more concerned with what the update will break 

 

 

 

True enough and sad

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Dominique_K

[March Hare 720]

20 minutes ago, MarcG said:

It's become a norm with this Sim; instead of looking forward to what an update brings, people are far more concerned with what the update will break - *that is what needs to change.*

I absolutely agree with this. But I maintain that it's Microsoft's responsibility to ensure this change happens, by changing their direction of the project, especially the release schedules.

When a game developer makes constant major changes to the engine/systems, such as with this update, to give the users what they demand, in this case METAR, which still needs to blend with the Meteoblue model, they will inevitably introduce bugs and need additional development time to iron those out and, in this case, work on necessary transitions between data types. But when the publisher sets an unreasonable release date and wants that new stuff in this latest release, and doesn't listen to the development team re their needs, that's when it's released in a broken state.

Control and release quality of the project ultimately sits with Microsoft.

Edited November 27, 2021 by March Hare

[harrry 322]

One of the problems is we are forced by this to update to the buggy version.  In the past we could remain on a version of the sim which was stable and delay  updates till the bugs seem to have been partially sorted out.  We now do not have that option so effectively flying by the numbers has to stop each time till they sort the worst problems out and force you to accept this to their timetable together with a new batch of problems. 

Yes it is possible to play this as an arcade game which was strongly denied as the claim was it was a real simulator but we cannot fly to a schedule having planned our flight fuel and timings so that our imaginary passengers or cargo can have a safe flight,  In both of the opposition sims we can still plan a flight take off at the scheduled time and have the pleasure of seeing on flight aware or flight radar24 how well our real life mentors are performing to match what we are seeing with our flight in Navigraph charts.  Maybe in 10 years we can do that. There is no doubt that for general aviation sightseeing this sim does in general meet what some want.  

Edited November 27, 2021 by harrry

[Sethos 4,333]

3 hours ago, MDFlier said:

Criticism is fine, but some of the posts on here read like Asobo has abducted the poster's daughter. 

Negative comments can be made without people coming across as entitled little kids. We're discussing a piece of entertainment software here. People act like they are entitled to perfection just because they shelled out a couple of bucks. No software is perfect. Most of it gets released and stays exactly the same as it was in release date throughout its entire life. At least MSFS is getting improved at a steady pace. 

Nobody wants a "safe space". All we want is for people to react in a manner proportional to the "problem". 

If you don't like the sim,  just delete it and go back to P3D or XP. Why bash the devs who are doing a great job?  The sim will get to where we all want it to be in due time. 

No, again a complete misrepresentation to try and dismiss criticism. First by trying to shoot down a lot of valid criticism with the usual 'Oh you'd think they did something much worse' usually crime related, then something about acting entitled to having their paid product work as expected, the usual spiel about software not being perfect and then "If you don't like it, just leave". This is the stereotypical blanket dismissal approach because you want it to just be an Asobo back patting zone. A lot of these people who are vocal around here have been in the flight simming market for a lot of years most likely and having to deal with the wonders of software development, understand things take time and things can go wrong. However, there's an absolutely massive leap from 'software development being software development' to a developer knowingly, willingly cancelling testing on your product, ignore already reported issues and then still push out a half-baked update that was clearly only done to hit an internal schedule. An update that broke more than it fixed and was essentially just a shell for them to peddle their payware content. 

And this isn't their first bad update, mind you, this is now the second time they've released an update that truly makes you question how little respect they have for the end-user and how much testing they actually do.

It's okay to criticize, it's okay to let them know what they are doing is not okay. You can like a product and still have respect for it, without constantly patting the developers on the back when they clearly aren't deserving of it. That's how products are shaped, that's how the users are heard. This safe space attitude of "Just leave, delete the sim, why criticize developers who make mistakes?" are a road to hell, paved with blind loyalty. That is how you end up with bad products and is the absolute most damaging attitude you can ever have. Same reason why the AAA industry is in the toilet, just millions of yes-men gamers throwing money at broken, unfinished products to developers who will just do the bare minimum to keep them satisfied. Let's not turn Flight Simming into another blind yes-men zone, demand more. 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

5 hours ago, MDFlier said:

 

Criticism is fine, but some of the posts on here read like Asobo has abducted the poster's daughter. 

Negative comments can be made without people coming across as entitled little kids. We're discussing a piece of entertainment software here. People act like they are entitled to perfection just because they shelled out a couple of bucks. No software is perfect. Most of it gets released and stays exactly the same as it was in release date throughout its entire life. At least MSFS is getting improved at a steady pace. 

Nobody wants a "safe space". All we want is for people to react in a manner proportional to the "problem". 

If you don't like the sim,  just delete it and go back to P3D or XP. Why bash the devs who are doing a great job?  The sim will get to where we all want it to be in due time. 

Don’t you love when any declaration starts with « criticism is fine but etc.. » (but it is not)  then accuses the other side of being akin to a slanderer  🤣 then goes on by calling it entitled kids, then sets a rule than any  answer should fit to their idea of what is proportional and finishes by a « love it or leave it ». 

A monument of a post. A monument to what is left at your discretion.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Dominique_K

[Dominique_K 10,138]

12 minutes ago, Sethos said:

No, again a complete misrepresentation to try and dismiss criticism. First by trying to shoot down a lot of valid criticism with the usual 'Oh you'd think they did something much worse' usually crime related, then something about acting entitled to having their paid product work as expected, the usual spiel about software not being perfect and then "If you don't like it, just leave". This is the stereotypical blanket dismissal approach because you want it to just be an Asobo back patting zone. A lot of these people who are vocal around here have been in the flight simming market for a lot of years most likely and having to deal with the wonders of software development, understand things take time and things can go wrong. However, there's an absolutely massive leap from 'software development being software development' to a developer knowingly, willingly cancelling testing on your product, ignore already reported issues and then still push out a half-baked update that was clearly only done to hit an internal schedule. An update that broke more than it fixed and was essentially just a shell for them to peddle their payware content. 

And this isn't their first bad update, mind you, this is now the second time they've released an update that truly makes you question how little respect they have for the end-user and how much testing they actually do.

It's okay to criticize, it's okay to let them know what they are doing is not okay. You can like a product and still have respect for it, without constantly patting the developers on the back when they clearly aren't deserving of it. That's how products are shaped, that's how the users are heard. This safe space attitude of "Just leave, delete the sim, why criticize developers who make mistakes?" are a road to hell, paved with blind loyalty. That is how you end up with bad products and is the absolute most damaging attitude you can ever have. Same reason why the AAA industry is in the toilet, just millions of yes-men gamers throwing money at broken, unfinished products to developers who will just do the bare minimum to keep them satisfied. Let's not turn Flight Simming into another blind yes-men zone, demand more. 

The guy repeats some now worn out clichés (entitled kids etc) out of the context of this thread which he has obviously not read 😆

[MarcG 2,956]

1 hour ago, harrry said:

One of the problems is we are forced by this to update to the buggy version.  In the past we could remain on a version of the sim which was stable and delay  updates till the bugs seem to have been partially sorted out.  We now do not have that option so effectively flying by the numbers has to stop each time till they sort the worst problems out and force you to accept this to their timetable together with a new batch of problems. 

On this note this is what annoyed me in the very beginning, their naivety towards a proper working Beta Process. There wasn't even one at the start, then they added a select few hundred and then upped it a bit more until then cancelled the SU7 beta altogether....that was just incredible in itself!

It's as though they didn't initially plan for a Beta Testing group at all and then felt forced to do so when the community spoke up, as it stands right not it's still severely lacking. They have mentioned they want to have an Opt-In beta a some point in the future, but quite frankly this is something that should've been in place from the very start.

Beta testing large gaming/simulation projects isn't new, I just think with Asobos past projects they've only ever worked to the Publishers plan and therefore had very little experience with a proper beta process outside of what they have internally, they seems to be continuing here.

Ultimately they still need to listen to the beta testers, that's another fail on their behalf having spoken to recent beta testers and even guys from the Pre release alpha. Too many voices are going ignored, the beta process is a shambles at this moment in time and needs urgent attention for future updates.