Asobo acknowledged the issues and spoke

[Captain Nuts 93]

59 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Sometime ago there was a quest for "experts" to join the beta team ( ? ) but I never heard about the end result ?

According to NDA-restricted murmur from beta testers no bug was left out in reporting at all times.  True or not - beta testing, bug reports and internal regression testing are almost pointless if too tight and absolutely non-deferrable deadlines don't allow for addressing the reported and internally identified regressions and new bugs, not to mention old bugs and cleaning up old code.  Hence we see bugs disappearing and returning 2 updates later, regressions and new bugs popping up when something else was fixed and a lot of half-baked new features, because there was no time to deal with any of that thoroughly.  That there was a long phase of branching out and replacing core stuff (rather invisible for the end-user) to make that Xbox release happen certainly didn't make stuff easier and on top of this, marketing is demanding more content to keep the buzz going.

Since I'm pretty sure that the people in Bordeaux are making software out of passion, such an environment forcing them to submit so much half-baked and unaddressed stuff under a lot of pressure instead leaving them time to do it right must be extremely unpleasant for them to say the least.  They are certainly not allowed to speak up but if anything I wrote above in this paragraph is true, what I see after each update is tears edged in code.  Well, maybe I just confuse that with me saying "OK, that tears it" after each update but you get the idea. 🙂

Edited December 1, 2021 by Captain Nuts

[Shack95 2,658]

3 minutes ago, hansb57 said:

In different parts of the world that can mean different things.

As I understand it, today „entitlement“ is often used in the sense of „unwarranted entitlement“, often in the context of the „snowflake generation“ who allegedly think they‘re the centre of the world and everything‘s got to be the way they want it, not tomorrow but now, without contributing anything. Although there are certainly people with such an attitude I think this is a gross generalization and probably a symptom of social media rather than reality, at least I haven‘t met a proper „snowflake“ yet in real life. 

[Lord Farringdon 487]

6 minutes ago, DC1973 said:

At the risk of further inflaming things, I have contact with Asobo daily. They are acutely aware of all bugs, all reports and all concerns from both users and developers. SU7 is still an amazing simulator, but it did indeed ship with countless bugs, both those you can see and those you cannot ( SDK non-functional / highly bugged being one that most will not be aware of ).

Asobo work hard to fix as much as they can, but of course they only have so many personnel and there are literally thousands ( perhaps tens of thousands ) of reports coming in from around the entire planet. To expect personal or immediate responses is a bit too much given the volume. Also, different users experience bizarrely different things - SU7 works a treat for one user, and is a disaster for another. That's why so many are arguing past each other here and on other forums.

My own personal request to Asobo, of some months ago, was to cut out the flashy add-ons and start fixing things. They have zero control over this - it's MS pushing the updates regardless of considerations for users, developers or Asobo. Argue about it all you want, but that's the way it is. I hope it changes, and soon.

Absolutely spot on.  Key points: 

1.they are acutely aware of all bugs, all reports and all concerns from both users and developers.

 2.they only have so many personnel and there are literally thousands ( perhaps tens of thousands ) of reports coming in from around the entire planet.

3.SU7 works a treat for one user, and is a disaster for another. That's why so many are arguing past each other here and on other forums.

4.it's MS pushing the updates regardless of considerations for users, developers or Asobo.

 

On your last point @DC1973,  this is what many of us have been saying for a while now. Yes we must put in the reports to let them know the issues exist but the fact the issues do exist says more about  the MS programme than Aosbo's desire to be nothing but professional and only put out their best work. I bet they're as frustrated as we are! 

 

 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

23 minutes ago, DC1973 said:

 

My own personal request to Asobo, of some months ago, was to cut out the flashy add-ons and start fixing things. They have zero control over this - it's MS pushing the updates regardless of considerations for users, developers or Asobo. Argue about it all you want, but that's the way it is. I hope it changes, and soon.

You have just confirmed here what several of us have been saying all along these recent few months. Except that we were making conjectures out of reasoned observations whereas you have a first hand experience. 

Thank you, very much appreciated.

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

3 hours ago, GSalden said:

However, there are more bugs to fix like the framerate drop over time many people experience since WU 5-7

Give them time, its a ten year plan 😄 Folks that are working on Reno ain't working on bugs etc etc etc What did I miss?

[Ianrivaldosmith 5,317]

40 minutes ago, DC1973 said:

To expect personal or immediate responses is a bit too much given the volume.

Who asked for that? If they did, more fool them. However I believe the vast majority of people just want a spokesperson from Asobo to put out an update, an acknowledgement. They can do it on their own website, or even via outlets such as fselite etc... This was exactly the same problems in the betas....No guidance, no acknowledgement. Somebody said they 'watch' the forums. What are they, ghosts? 

[Dominique_K 10,138]

It puts in crude light the gobbledygook (word allowed !)  for the gullible crowd about the 10-year development.

MS had a clear plan to keep the level of sales though « events », WU, SU or DLC and the releases in themselves are more important than the products. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Dominique_K

[March Hare 720]

Yes, it's also what I've kept saying. Now, Jorg, representing Microsoft, said they are entering a new phase of not working on new content for a while, but bug fixing instead. So let's hope that is the first sign of Microsoft actually listening (to the negativity on the forums and Asobo themselves) -- and let's also hope they really mean it, and, in future, scale back the release schedules, which have been really unprecedented in this industry.

I kind of don't blame MS in a way; they have been eager to please (and make money, yes), trying to roll everything out the door as quickly as possible. But it just, evidently, doesn't work.

[March Hare 720]

5 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

Somebody said they 'watch' the forums. What are they, ghosts? 

Effectively, yes, because Asobo don't have a public voice of their own. The publisher, Microsoft, controls PR, so they need to be issuing such statements, agreed. Such as the one issued by Microsoft on the official forum regarding weather. Although you'd think it would be pinned at the top of the weather bugs sub-forum, at least.

[Dominique_K 10,138]

41 minutes ago, March Hare said:

Microsoft actually listening 

They should scale back the releases because they are listening not to us but to the sales curve. It is pretty obvious that the sales growth is or will soon declining. Market will still grow but slower. And new releases will bring only too marginal of an improvement. Pink slips on the radar screen.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Dominique_K

[Nyxx 6,993]

And this beggers the question why Asobo dont grow a pair and tell in no uncertain words what they can provived with an update and what MS should exspect and stop pushing Asobo and the sim backwards and making Asobo life hell with the constant bugs being pushed out, knowing there releasing unfixed bugs and adding more bugs, just becasue some big cheese want to say "I tell them to update it and they do as I say" Stand up Asobo, show MS the bugs, the problems and there ill inform targets they set, tell them striaight what is realesitc and whats not.

[MarcG 2,961]

2 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

And this beggers the question why Asobo dont grow a pair and tell in no uncertain words what they can provived with an update and what MS should exspect and stop pushing Asobo and the sim backwards and making Asobo life hell with the constant bugs being pushed out, knowing there releasing unfixed bugs and adding more bugs, just becasue some big cheese want to say "I tell them to update it and they do as I say" Stand up Asobo, show MS the bugs, the problems and there ill inform targets they set, tell them striaight what is realesitc and whats not.

Because all the time they're getting paid who are they to argue? They've got a contract to fulfill, their hands are pretty much tied to whatever demands MS have set out.

[Dominique_K 10,138]

6 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

And this beggers the question why Asobo dont grow a pair and tell in no uncertain words what they can provived with an update and what MS should exspect and stop pushing Asobo and the sim backwards and making Asobo life hell with the constant bugs being pushed out, knowing there releasing unfixed bugs and adding more bugs, just becasue some big cheese want to say "I tell them to update it and they do as I say" Stand up Asobo, show MS the bugs, the problems and there ill inform targets they set, tell them striaight what is realesitc and whats not.

Asobo is a very small company which hit the gold a few years ago. Do you think that Wloch has any negociation leverage on Spencer ? None.

Besides, I have always suspected that they convinced MS head honchos to fund the project with an insanely tight business plan. Why do you think that major public works are always very late to be completed  ? Same here 
 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Dominique_K

[March Hare 720]

2 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Because all the time they're getting paid who are they to argue? They've got a contract to fulfill, their hands are pretty much tied to whatever demands MS have set out.

Well, it's not to say they don't argue, but their hands are definitely tied.

Like a publisher telling a developer they must do something in a certain way that's actually impossible on the hardware, the developer telling them it's impossible, and the publisher telling them to just do it -- but of course it can't be done and it brought the project grinding to a complete stop, whereas if the publisher had listened to the development team, because they had a workaround, the project would have seen the light of day. I'm not naming names, but this is a true story from the inside of the Wonderful World of Games Development 😉

[psolk 3,040]

11 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

And this beggers the question why Asobo dont grow a pair and tell in no uncertain words what they can provived with an update and what MS should exspect and stop pushing Asobo and the sim backwards and making Asobo life hell with the constant bugs being pushed out, knowing there releasing unfixed bugs and adding more bugs, just becasue some big cheese want to say "I tell them to update it and they do as I say" Stand up Asobo, show MS the bugs, the problems and there ill inform targets they set, tell them striaight what is realesitc and whats not.

MS wont care...  I see this a lot in my industry where you get 12-18 months into a new product release and the next release becomes a "just fix the word not allowed thing" release with no feature/functionality but simply going back to address stability and everything that was broken in the rush to get it out... Forget about Asobo/MS doing this at the consumer level their parent company does it at the Corporate level so why would they care? 

How many OS updates have MS rolled out with known bugs that require hotfixes, why would they treat MSFS any different?  It's not like MS has never chose to roll out buggy software over taking the time to polish it to perfection before release and that is for corporate customers with multi million dollar accounts.  We have done it, so has just about all our competition at some point.  If they need to do a feature freeze to fix things then so be it, I'd actually be fine with that. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by psolk