RW pilots who have used ALL of these: XP/P3D/FSX/MSFS. Ran

[Ident 198]

1 hour ago, SAS443 said:

I really really hope this was a remote strip and not in controlled airspace shared with commercial traffic. I don't care what you think, at 3.4 hrs you are not a proficient pilot to deal with any kind of abnormals. No matter how much simming you have prior. Holy cow. Stalls/spin avoidance? Outfield recog for emergency landing?  And then night time XC (solo?) On 3rd lesson? That is borderline criminal and dangerous to send a green rookie with extremely little experience into night VFR (the most dangerous flying basically). 

It's not safe. Which is what anything in aviation should strive for. Again it might work in NowheresVille, Wyoming, but in busy airspace you are exposing other air crews of unnecessary danger. 

I've been simming and flying with friends in their planes for over 20 years. I worked at FLight Safety and Cape Air in dispatch and rode along on Gemini flights (back seat with PPL holding Student and Instructor working on their CIME ratings) at Flight Safety. So I got to observe all kinds or commercial maneuvers, in both single and multi plus XC flight etc. Prior to starting my lessons in the left seat I had flown C402, C152, C172, C182, RV8, Mooney, SR22 and a Super Cub. I agree with worry of proficiency however, I had an instructor who believed in me and I demonstrated everything he wanted to see in those 3.4 hours prior. Steep turns, Slow flight, stalls (Power on and Off) and had 18 landings in prior to the 3.4 hours where I did my solo 3 landings, in Controlled airspace at Flagler KFIN. The night XC was Dual with the instructor not solo. There is no Night solo requirement for PPL. No check pilot or pilot friend has flown with me and not mentioned how they can believe how low hour I am.

In April I went out and did Mountain flying in a C182 on Tundra based out of Eagle KEGE with landing at telluride and Leadville. This Feb I am getting my Sea rating in a beautiful DHC2 Beaver at KFIN from Ryan Aviation...check it out. While in Florida I'm also going to do some Helo lessons out of Clearwater. Basically I'm just doing Bucket List items when I fly and dont see myself flying in the near future anytime solo but always with an instructor for the reasons you mentioned even though I believe in myself. So I craft my plane rentals around lessons, let it be IFR lessons now or other things like new ratings or check outs in new equipment.

Lastly, I have an instructor friend who use to teach for the military and basically they had to get there students to solo in under 6 hours or right near that mark. The thought process was if they couldnt do it in under 6 hours (just solo touch and gos) then it wasnt worth trying to invest more time in them. So all they did was pattern work. Prior to my lessons I had already passed the written 3 times as I had taken the Part 107 one when it came out then again to renew so while I was at the testing center and the Part 107 for UAV commercial pilot is the same test as the PPL written and passed my medical so all I had to do was fly. So yeah in one day I took the Part 107, PPL written and my medical and then about a month later I started my flying lessons while on vacation in Florida.

I credit everything to simming and PilotEdge for all my radio work. Thats why when I read statements like sim and flying dont compare because you dont feel it, I roll my eyes because obviously whoever is saying that is not realizing the power of a good simpit setup where the user is not seeing it as playing pilot but instead practicing pilot proficiency.  

Edited January 1, 2022 by Ident

[birdguy 3,943]

19 hours ago, Ident said:

No disrespect Noel but that sounds boring. At that point you might as just watch someone else fly in a video of them using the sim.

I've done my real life flying and for me all of three sims I have flown are just games.  And I treat them as such.  I get no thrill from them like I did from real life flying.  The real interest in flight simming for me is collecting airplanes and installing new scenery.

 

19 hours ago, Ident said:

I earned my solo at 3.4 hours on my second day of lessons. On the 3rd day I did my night XC. I did my big 150nm XC on my 6th flight lesson at 12.7 hours. My PPL at 40.3 and when I did my 1st IFR lesson I flew real IMC at almost minimums in Class C KPWM with 500' ceiling and 1 1/2mile viz

If you are telling us the truth here you belong in the Aviation Hall of Fame.

Noel

[Ident 198]

5 minutes ago, birdguy said:

If youu are telling us the truth here you belong in the Aviation Hall of Fame.

Noel

Hal who was one of the developers on ACEs went to work for I believe AOPA or some aviation magazine after MS shut down ACEs as a writer and heard about my story and wanted me to do an article about it. At the time I was still working on my PPL. I started in Nov 18 and finished in May 19. I told him to we should wait until I get my PPL so its a more complete article. However, Summer madness kicked in and I let it slide and never did finish that piece. No its all true. Heck I even squeezed .5 hours in while I was in Ireland in March as so I had an international lesson in my PPL training logbook. That was an interesting flight because it was SKC but local knowledge had the instructor knowing turbulent winds were coming and the approach over water with hills near by has caught many seasoned pilots off guard, which sure enough was calm when I got there and all over the place gusty when I left.

Additionally when I was around my high 20s in hours I flew an instructor and his plane from Nantucket MA to Jacksonville FL on a one day XC 4 leg flight. That was an experience as I logged 10 hours of dual in that day and he was flying it down to get the plane painted so that was 10 hours of free flight instructions. Did some IFR work on part of that as well. Only thing was it really advanced my hours into the mid to high 30s and I wanted to do my check ride at 40 so I had to cram all the maneuver training into those last few hours and got handed off between two different instructors as I wanted to have my check ride done by a respected local DPE who owned an airline, and personally owned all kinds of planes like P51, C206 amphiib, B18 that he used to build his house with on a small island on his private grass strip. All my lessons were done in Fla up to that point so I had to prove to others here I was ready to get signed off for the test.

[birdguy 3,943]

I still find it hard to believe you learned how to recover from stalls, master turns about a point, approach procedures, landing and taking off, having the instructor pull the power back and ask you to point out and emergency landing field, and recovering from unusual attitudes in less than four hours which I assume includes flying to and from the practice area.  And a night XC before showing proficiency in a day XC.

Like I said, you're a candidate for the Aviation Hall of Fame.

Noel

[Ident 198]

 

Below are my 1st four lessons. I did two on the 1st day and then on the second day we focused strictly on pattern work before he jumped out and let me solo. You can see in the 1st lesson we did step turns and while hard to see, stalls and I flew a pattern over a square field to simulate pattern work at a filed prior to returning to the filed to do some landings. Afterwards we shut down, debriefed and went up again to once again demonstrate more maneuvers. Not once did he ever take the controls from the 1st second of the lessons nor did he ever demonstrate anything for me. He offered great input and direction but for the most part I knew what was expected and was able to do it for him.

In the third photo you can see my pattern work and on the second to last approach he finally put his hand on the yoke to key tower to let them know we were going to be doing a low approach into a going missed. That was the 1st time he ever used the radio as I did all the radio work from minute one. So you can see my leveling and pattern work was while not picture perfect for a rectangle, not that shabby for my 3rd lesson and second day.

Last one is my night XC.

BTW Green is where Im climbing, Blue is level and red is descending.

Just goes to show when you use the sim as a tool and not a game and have a nice simpit to use, its a greater resource then some might think. Plus having PilotEdge is also a huge advantage.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

I still find it hard to believe you learned how to recover from stalls, master turns about a point, approach procedures, landing and taking off, having the instructor pull the power back and ask you to point out and emergency landing field, and recovering from unusual attitudes in less than four hours which I assume includes flying to and from the practice area.  And a night XC before showing proficiency in a day XC.

Like I said, you're a candidate for the Aviation Hall of Fame.

Noel

 

[birdguy 3,943]

I spent almost a whole hour on stalls.  How about turns around a point?  You didn't mention that.

I fell like stupid jackass having to go 8 hours before I soloed.

If flightsims are so good what did you need an instructor for?  He could have let you solo after the first landing and let FSX or P3D of MSFS take over after that.

Noel

[Ident 198]

I had 3 days and was focused on just soloing in those 3 days so we focused on that. Turns around a points, s turns, slow flight, partial power, power off landings, power on and off stalls, partial panel,  steep turns, lost comms, short/soft field takeoff and landings (actually did a grass field during my checkride for soft field)...all those things were there later in my lessons and I have some nice screen grabs of those too.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Ident

[birdguy 3,943]

3 hours ago, Ident said:

Not once did he ever take the controls from the 1st second of the lessons nor did he ever demonstrate anything for me.

Sounds like you were the instructor and he was the student following your instructions and doing what you wanted to do.  No curriculum.  Sorry, never heard of anyone soloing in less than four hours.  But I'm old school.  I know nothing about new school.  Is that the way they do it now?

Noel

[birdguy 3,943]

14 CFR § 61.87 - Solo requirements for student pilots.

• CFR

prev | next

§ 61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.

(a) General. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student has met the requirements of this section. The term “solo flight” as used in this subpart means that flight time during which a student pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft or that flight time during which the student performs the duties of a pilot in command of a gas balloon or an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember.

(b) Aeronautical knowledge. A student pilot must demonstrate satisfactory aeronautical knowledge on a knowledge test that meets the requirements of this paragraph:

(1) The test must address the student pilot's knowledge of -

(i) Applicable sections of parts 61 and 91 of this chapter;

(ii) Airspace rules and procedures for the airport where the solo flight will be performed; and

(iii) Flight characteristics and operational limitations for the make and model of aircraft to be flown.

(2) The student's authorized instructor must -

(i) Administer the test; and

(ii) At the conclusion of the test, review all incorrect answers with the student before authorizing that student to conduct a solo flight.

(c) Pre-solo flight training. Prior to conducting a solo flight, a student pilot must have:

(1) Received and logged flight training for the maneuvers and procedures of this section that are appropriate to the make and model of aircraft to be flown; and

(2) Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section in the make and model of aircraft or similar make and model of aircraft to be flown.

(d) Maneuvers and procedures for pre-solo flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating or privileges must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:

(1) Proper flight preparation procedures, including preflight planning and preparation, powerplant operation, and aircraft systems;

(2) Taxiing or surface operations, including runups;

(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;

(4) Straight and level flight, and turns in both directions;

(5) Climbs and climbing turns;

(6) Airport traffic patterns, including entry and departure procedures;

(7) Collision avoidance, windshear avoidance, and wake turbulence avoidance;

(8) Descents, with and without turns, using high and low drag configurations;

(9) Flight at various airspeeds from cruise to slow flight;

(10) Stall entries from various flight attitudes and power combinations with recovery initiated at the first indication of a stall, and recovery from a full stall;

(11) Emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions;

(12) Ground reference maneuvers;

(13) Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfunctions;

(14) Slips to a landing; and

(15) Go-arounds.

So, Ident, you performed all of these maneuvers with less than 4 hours of flight training and was certified by your instructor for solo flight?

Noel

[Ident 198]

I dunno but don't think so. My instructor was rather old so my gut is that he has seen a many student pilots and could tell the level they were at. All I know is that my flight instructions were always enjoyable and never close to over taxing. However there's a catch. I will always feel like I missed out on those lessons learned from error and will always question my true capabilities. Its because of this I feel even more a pressure to stay on top of my game. It's all good because once again, I don't solo anymore and always fly with an instructor or fellow pilot. My goal was always to just solo...everything after that is bucket list items. 

[birdguy 3,943]

Goodbye Ident.

Noel

[Ident 198]

3 minutes ago, birdguy said:

14 CFR § 61.87 - Solo requirements for student pilots.

• CFR

prev | next

§ 61.87 Solo requirements for student pilots.

(a) General. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student has met the requirements of this section. The term “solo flight” as used in this subpart means that flight time during which a student pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft or that flight time during which the student performs the duties of a pilot in command of a gas balloon or an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember.

(b) Aeronautical knowledge. A student pilot must demonstrate satisfactory aeronautical knowledge on a knowledge test that meets the requirements of this paragraph:

(1) The test must address the student pilot's knowledge of -

(i) Applicable sections of parts 61 and 91 of this chapter;

(ii) Airspace rules and procedures for the airport where the solo flight will be performed; and

(iii) Flight characteristics and operational limitations for the make and model of aircraft to be flown.

(2) The student's authorized instructor must -

(i) Administer the test; and

(ii) At the conclusion of the test, review all incorrect answers with the student before authorizing that student to conduct a solo flight.

(c) Pre-solo flight training. Prior to conducting a solo flight, a student pilot must have:

(1) Received and logged flight training for the maneuvers and procedures of this section that are appropriate to the make and model of aircraft to be flown; and

(2) Demonstrated satisfactory proficiency and safety, as judged by an authorized instructor, on the maneuvers and procedures required by this section in the make and model of aircraft or similar make and model of aircraft to be flown.

(d) Maneuvers and procedures for pre-solo flight training in a single-engine airplane. A student pilot who is receiving training for a single-engine airplane rating or privileges must receive and log flight training for the following maneuvers and procedures:

(1) Proper flight preparation procedures, including preflight planning and preparation, powerplant operation, and aircraft systems;

(2) Taxiing or surface operations, including runups;

(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;

(4) Straight and level flight, and turns in both directions;

(5) Climbs and climbing turns;

(6) Airport traffic patterns, including entry and departure procedures;

(7) Collision avoidance, windshear avoidance, and wake turbulence avoidance;

(8) Descents, with and without turns, using high and low drag configurations;

(9) Flight at various airspeeds from cruise to slow flight;

(10) Stall entries from various flight attitudes and power combinations with recovery initiated at the first indication of a stall, and recovery from a full stall;

(11) Emergency procedures and equipment malfunctions;

(12) Ground reference maneuvers;

(13) Approaches to a landing area with simulated engine malfunctions;

(14) Slips to a landing; and

(15) Go-arounds.

So, Ident, you performed all of these maneuvers with less than 4 hours of flight training and was certified by your instructor for solo flight?

Noel

Yes. The go around was the last thing we covered before my solo. If you look at my pattern work that one short base leg was power off landings. Everything else can almost be seen on the graph but yes. Other things like turns around a point and such came after.

[LHookins 3,103]

27 minutes ago, Ident said:

I don't solo anymore and always fly with an instructor or fellow pilot.

I get the impression that you haven't done much actual solo flight.  Nothing wrong with that considering your intentions about flying.  How many true solo hours to you have?

Actual solo flight is the only time when the feelings pilots are talking about in this thread actually occur.

Hook

[Ident 198]

48 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I get the impression that you haven't done much actual solo flight.  Nothing wrong with that considering your intentions about flying.  How many true solo hours to you have?

Actual solo flight is the only time when the feelings pilots are talking about in this thread actually occur.

Hook

72.6 total

37.6 PIC

7.9 night

15.5 solo

39.6 XC

45.6 dual

117 day take off/ landings

13 night take off/landings

 

[jon b 2,047]

I did loads of SOLO FLIGHT when I was just 14 and without any formal instruction ….it was on the Commodore 64, I used to love that little sim.

Edited January 2, 2022 by jon b