RW pilots who have used ALL of these: XP/P3D/FSX/MSFS. Ran

[SAS443 1,723]

12 hours ago, Ident said:

Turns around a points, s turns, slow flight, partial power, power off landings, power on and off stalls, partial panel,  steep turns, lost comms, short/soft field takeoff and landings (actually did a grass field during my checkride for soft field)...all those things were there later in my lessons

I don't usually care how my fellow aviators around the world attains their license. However...

I'm sorry @Ident but what i am reading from your postings doesnt make sense in my mind. 

• rush to go solo (is that just to have a "cool" story to share?)
  • omitt several crucial items in the tranining syllabus that should've been marked as "completed" before you fly solo
  • Your CFI would have some serious explaining to do if you had an emergency during your solo and you werent checked out as proficient on those maneuvers
• Log 10hrs in one day (nice quantity, but questionable quality)
  • that's 25% of your total time at PPL check out...
• regarding your own flying:
  • you openly question your true capabilities
  • You feel more pressure to stay on top of your game
  • If I understood correctly, only 15.5 solo time  of 73hrs total (that is remarkably low, as low as some fresh PPL-holders)

Would you agree that your path to PPL and the outcome is not ideal? Is this what the FAA (or EASA for that matter) would consider a succesful PPL graduate? 

 

[turbomax 3,285]

how old or young were you when you had your flight training and soloed? age plays a major role in one's ability to absorb so many new things and to cope with challenging situations. some people learn faster than others, and there is talent and  special interest.

I was in my mid 40s when I started flight training and took a slow and relaxed approach to learning to fly. But I was lucky, I owned my own brand new airplane and didn't have to pay my instructor. we flew together across half the U.S. before I applied for my practical test. I probably had more solo hours than any of his other students, to a level that he felt a little ashamed when the designated examiner checked my log book. I had never felt a rush, it will happen sometime anyway, when I am ready. I was glad when I passed the practical test then first time. I called off one part of the test on my own terms because I didn't feel comfortable showing an emergency landing because there were high radio towers very close and he accepted my decision not to try the landing between those towers on that grass strip.  I had to meet the examiner though afterwards for an additional review of my airspace knowledge. I was the happiest man on earth when that evening he handed me that piece of paper that said: "preliminary pilot license". one of the moments in my life I will never forget: first solo and passing the practical flight test.

Edited January 2, 2022 by turbomax

[Ident 198]

4 hours ago, SAS443 said:

I don't usually care how my fellow aviators around the world attains their license. However...

I'm sorry @Ident but what i am reading from your postings doesnt make sense in my mind. 

•  

 

• rush to go solo (is that just to have a "cool" story to share?)
  Honestly no. It was to prove to myself that I could fly. See when I took the part 107 written to fly drones I was super proud of myself. I took the test within a week or two of it being available and if you've never taken it, its basically the written for PPL without Comm questions. At that point, to me the hardest thing to do in flying after simming and flying with friends for over the past 20 years was taking the written test. So when I told be I had passed and then new how much I was into aviation (I mean Scott Gentile of A2A had flown in my sim that was a 4 place dual control sim in the back of a box van...that kind of into it) they would ask so your a pilot now, and that was always no but you dont understand.
  
  So when I had to renew my Part 107 I took the Sportys ground school having taken the King School back in 2000-2001 when I worked at Flight Safety and earned my endorsement to take the written. At that point, having passed the written, passed my medical, if I could solo then from then on I was at least a Student Pilot and knew for myself that I was capable of taking off and landing a plane by myself. 
  
  I never omitted anything from the syllabus as there was no syllabus. I spoke with the flight school and instructor prior to going that I wanted to solo and had three days in which at that time I would like to achieve that as a soft goal. It would be up to the instructor to determine if and when I was ready or it would happen at all. So we took to the skies and he ran me through the paces. So yeah I had spent the second day just doing pattern work after spending the 1st day doing all kinds of maneuvers and discussing what ifs and what does the FAR AIM state about this or that. Got to remember that he didnt have to really teach me the knowledge things I needed to know as I had already proven that with the written.
  
  Last when you said, "Your CFI would have some serious explaining to do if you had an emergency during your..." interesting story but the night I went to do all my remaining night landings with the plan to do my big XC the next day, the plane I was to use got stuck out because some guy had come down and rented the plane to do his check ride for his PPL and this was his second attempt and he found a different instructor to sign off on it. The school just rented the plane, nothing to do with the student or instructor but his check ride went so bad that the DPE grounded him from solo flying the plane back to the field so we flew two instructors out to pick it up that night and I used it the next day. That would seem to be some hard explaining to do for an instructor who signed off on a check ride.
   
• Log 10hrs in one day (nice quantity, but questionable quality)
  Well thats hard to say. For XC purposes it was amazing quality. I asked the instructor how long of legs he wanted and then set out to find lowest prices of fuel, called to make sure the fuel pumps were available and in working order, and used the time to finish up my simulated IFR with an ILS approach. All new field to me and a good measure of a endurance exercise. For some the whole idea for flying is to travel so yeah while there wasnt a whole lot to learn sitting in cruise in one aspect, there was a better understanding of monitoring the gauges for endurance issues, dealing with new airspaces and controllers and overall a complete different experience to being away from local knowledge. 
  
  Heres a video of leg 3 where I did my foggles. So that was almost 3 hours of flying with those word not allowed foggles on and I didnt use any moving maps or GPS, just VOR navigation. You can read in the video description more about that leg.
   
  
   
• regarding your own flying:
  I dont "openly question your true capabilities" just that did I get kind of feedback a complete newbie would of gotten and in doing so was there ever anything missed by doing that. I'm 100% confident in my skills, abilities and training but there is always the unknown and for me that is something that I will never be able to answer. So thats where yes I feel my own pressure to continue to never be relaxed that just because I passed all my text and check rides and fellow pilots and instructors commend me on my overall PIC skills I never let it go to my head that I am still a low hour pilot and each flight offers something new to learn. Additionally yes the 15.5 solo hours is low. However, when I got my PPL, like I would expect many other pilots before me, the idea is now one can take friends and family flying so why rent a plane to fly solo. 
  
  Additionally, after I got my PPL I was kinda like cool now what because I dont see myself ever owning a plane. Thats when I came up with making bucket list flights and added to my ratings and addons. So I earned my high performance in a beautiful C182 on tundra while learning mountain flying out of Eagle CO, ever now and then do night IFR lesson that are also XC to work towards my IFR and determined night time offers better outside IFR with foggles on while added to my night time experience and come Feb and looking to get my Seaplane SEPS rating which since its an amphib will also give me my complex addon. I'm also going to do some helo lessons in a R22 and on my short list of things I want to do is upset recovery lessons.

Would you agree that your path to PPL and the outcome is not ideal?
I wouldnt say yes or no, thats a personal thing based on the person.

Is this what the FAA (or EASA for that matter) would consider a succesful PPL graduate?

ABSOLUTELY! I didnt earn my PPL because it was given to me. I earned it with my skills and knowledge that one cant discount the 20 years of studying and practicing in both sim and other planes. Additionally, I received the endorsement of many instructors, DPE and now having finished my flight review recently an additional layer of all kinds of people who have put their name on my logbook that I am exactly what those departments look to have as examples of a PPL

Edited January 2, 2022 by Ident

[Ident 198]

2 hours ago, turbomax said:

how old or young were you when you had your flight training and soloed?

I was 48 years old. 51 now.

[birdguy 3,943]

I'm sorry Ident, but no matter how much previous experience you had and how proficient a pilot you already were when you became a student pilot, you could not have demonstrated proficiency and been signed off on the 50 or so items included in the list of 15 accomplishments required by the FAA before you could solo in 3.4 hours no matter how many charts you can show us.  If your story is true your instructor either forged your log book or allowed you to solo before you had demonstrated all of those proficiency reqirements.  Those proficiency demonstrations have to be logged in your logbook BEFORE you can solo.

After I had been away from flying for a decade  (I have a commercial rating and had over 300 hours ion my logbook at the time) and came back to it I spent almost two hours with an instructor to demonstrate my proficiency before he would sign off my logbook.

If what you say about your flying prowess is true then you're a lot better pilot than I ever was.

Note:  I have a commercial rating but never flew commercially.  After I got my private I signed up to have the GI Bill pay for my commercial rating.  They paid half or so for the instructor and my flying time.  It could have been 3/4ths of it.  I don't remember.  But I know I got a lot of flying in before my commercial checkride.  After that I had to pay for all my flying myself.

Noel

Edited January 2, 2022 by birdguy

[Ident 198]

8 minutes ago, birdguy said:

I'm sorry Ident, but no matter how much previous experience you had and how proficient a pilot you already were when you became a student pilot, you could not have demonstrated proficiency and been signed off on the 50 or so items included in the list of 15 accomplishments required by the FAA before you could solo in 3.4 hours no matter how many charts you can show us. 

But you soloed in 8 hours so that extra five hours is what would have you believe someone who is not you could? Who are you to say what a person can or cant do? There are 14 year old students in college because they didnt have someone like you saying what they cant do. I spent hundreds of hours over the 20 years practicing stalls, step turns etc in the sim but what because you only think of a sim as a game you cant wrap your head around the fact that it can be used as a high effective tool for muscle memory and proficiency? Seriously look at yourself and ask yourself who are you to judge a persons skills all based of what you think based strictly off of your choices.

No I'm not better than you as a pilot, I'm simply pointing out had you owned, took serious and practiced often in a nice simpit over that decade of not flying when you came back to get recurrent you wouldnt of been so rusty. Heck during the pandemic I have a pilot friend who flies for United that with just a month or two off noticed the small things he became rusty with. You dont think I didnt load up a C172 at KFIN and go through all the paces just prior to going for my lessons as so I was getting the most out of my money.

Lastly dont take a stab at an instructor that once again you didnt know nor were in the cockpit for any part of the lessons. You can clearly see based off of my flight graphs that as soon as we left the ground it was all demonstrate this and that. Basically the only thing we didnt do was S turns and Turns around a point. Heres my 1st attempt at s Turns and turns around a point.

 

Heres footage of my 1st soft field landing where I decided to go around on the 1st attempt and landed on the second. No one showed me 1st, I just did it.

 

[birdguy 3,943]

Your story starts out:

I earned my solo at 3.4 hours on my second day of lessons. On the 3rd day I did my night XC. I did my big 150nm XC on my 6th flight lesson at 12.7 hours. My PPL at 40.3 and when I did my 1st IFR lesson I flew real IMC at almost minimums in Class C KPWM with 500' ceiling and 1 1/2mile viz. This was all possible because of using the sim to not immerse the "feel" of flying but to focus on great flow building and CRM skills while using every aspect to maintain proficiency. 

No mention at all of all the priors years you were flying with friends and in your job.  Here you owe it all to to using the sim.

Your story keeps changing.  What are we to believe?

In my case in 1956, 66 years ago, I was learning to fly in a float plane off San Francisco Bay.  Rules were much less stringent then.  Navigation was 'pilotage' using a map and an E-6B.  Do you know what that is without looking it up first?  Cross countries (all during the day because we had no lights) were lakes within 100 miles...Clear Lake and San Luis Reservoir.  It was much easier to qualify for solo off water 66 years ago.  We didn't have as many rules and regulations back then and the sky wasn't nearly so crowded.

I just don't believe your story because in all 88 years I never heard of anyone soloing in less than 4 hours; and because your story has changed from soloing in less than 4 hours because of your sim experience to now where you had all this previous experience with flying friends and your job.

I've known a lot of pilots both in civilian life and in the Air Force and have never heard a story like yours.  We all like to embellish, but yours is a story hard to believe.  It may be true but if it is you belong in the aviation hall of fame.

Just as a matter of interest how many pages of your log book did it take your instructor to sign off all of those items you have to be proficient at before you can solo? 

Noel

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by birdguy

[Ident 198]

Noel I feel you should apply a little bit more respect. Do I know what a E-6B is?! Really?! 

Theres been no change of story. You are just approaching it with blinders on. First giving the idea that in no way can a sim benefit a pilot to prepare them for flying as its just a game to you and secondly everything about flying is based off of your own experience and in your 66 years of being in aviation with no room for anything else to be acceptable as new to you. My statement that my streamline experience in my PPL is 100% true that I owe it all to flight simming and PilotEdge. Just curious on how you feel about astronauts...do you also think there is no way that a gravity filled non moving room could every qualify them for the excessive g-force into weightlessness of the real thing so why did they even bother with all that sim work?

Yeah over the years I flew with friends in the right seat and held the controls for a portion of straight and level. No take offs, no landings, no maneuvers. Just exposure to the sounds and feels of flying for the most part. My Gemini flights in flight safety was sitting in the back of the plane watching the interactions of the student and pilot and that was in the early 2000's.

I have nothing to prove to you. I could careless what you believe or dont believe. The OP asked which sim users use the most as a RW pilot and I say XPlane and credit its overall design best for a platform when I want practice my RW skills. I concluded with a testament to just how much I back that with a sidebar personal story. 

Noel Im guessing you also havent heard of the Barefoot Bandit or Richard Russell.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Ident

[LHookins 3,103]

1 hour ago, Ident said:

I say XPlane and credit its overall design best for a platform when I want practice my RW skills.

This is the significant bit of information that make the rest make sense.  This should be understood by both XPlane users and non-XPlane users, but for different reasons.

Sorry 'bout that.

Hook

[Ident 198]

Just for the record its not like I'm a XPlane word not allowed as a matter of fact it wasnt until XP11 did I ever use it. I did the MS platform up unto P3D and got out of it at v4. MSFS offers so much, just right now my 1080ti and i7-7700K doesn't yield the performance I can get with XP11 in VR so I'm waiting on a year or two for hopefully prices to come down a bit before I upgrade my system and hopefully by then theres some new VR headsets to compliment it. I also love Aerofly FS2 for helo flying as I feel its the best one for flight modeling of those.

[birdguy 3,943]

1 hour ago, Ident said:

I have nothing to prove to you.

Then quit trying.

Noel

 

[CW46 101]

To get back to the original topic I have used P3D V3, V4 and V5. Recently purchased XP11 after the V5.3 update caused stutters on a clean install, grown weary of one step forward and two backward with new updates. Back to V5.2 now but found XP11 on Vulkan a refreshing change of pace. Seriously considering XP12 when released as the next upgrade, it made me realize IMHO the P3D interface could use a complete GUI overhaul.

[n4gix 4,947]

20 hours ago, birdguy said:

Then quit trying.

Noel

Might I respectfully suggest that you quit needlessly needling?

[birdguy 3,943]

It's in my nature Fr. Bill.  I'm highly opinionated and argumentative.  It's my Jesuit schooling and Marine Corps training.

Noel  

[Noel 4,498]

I'm puzzled by the results in this poll.  Why the heck is XP by far the least favorite amongst RW pilots?  I've always gotten the sense its attention to aeronautic fidelity is superior and yet so few afficionados.  Or...it's attention to AF is not really the case, i.e. it's overhyped in reality?  Something tells me after the 20 years its been out, hyping flight model accuracy and so forth, something must be sorely lacking for it not to far outpace the new kid on the block, not exactly known or hyped for aeronautical accuracy so far.