Navigraph 2021 survey results is out, MSFS grew market share

[akita 429]

6 minutes ago, rka said:

The superior XP flight model and realism is what you're after, right?

Please do quote where I said this, ever. I actually recall saying the exact opposite in multiple occasions, not just one.

And this will answer your other question as well about why PC and not mobile/XBOX, because on PC I get better graphics and FPS.

@abrams_tank I can see you hiding...

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by akita

[jeansy 338]

I dare say the level of xbox msfs users are far higher in RL than captured in the survey, as how many xboxers visit flight sim forums or give a hoot about a survey that triggered people cling to

at the same time the RL figures are no way near captured percentage wise in these surveys, if you take the number of sales per platform vs the number of respondents the outcome would show some different figures

at the end of your day, its each to their, the ones waving these results in peoples faces saying see i told you so are the ones who believe everything they read

for a real capture, the survey will require 10s of 1000s of questions and who the hell is bothered in doing that.

ive been mucking around these platforms since 93, ive send trends, fads and hype before on the internet and flightsim forums, just like discord is becoming the new favorite over forums. just like facebook was before that.

for the ones arguing over inaccurate results, log off and watch a movie or go for a drive and enjoy life

[rka 916]

2 minutes ago, akita said:

Please do quote where I said this, ever. I actually recall saying the exact opposite.

And this will answer your other question as well about why PC and not mobile/XBOX.

 

I was just talking from memory, maybe I got that wrong, sorry. I'm really interested in the reasons why you're not using mobile though.

[akita 429]

18 minutes ago, rka said:

I was just talking from memory, maybe I got that wrong, sorry. I'm really interested in the reasons why you're not using mobile though.

Art development. Better graphics/FPS.

I do agree however that XBOX/PS5 vs PC are more on par when it to comes to graphics/FPS than PC VS Mobile, but when talking numbers & $$$ you should never exclude other branches.

This survey is not just to debate who is more successful, it is also for developers who want to invest time, example; if tomorrow Xplane mobile is open to 3rd party's that is a door for an insane market, with products that might be easily ported from PC (hence saving time gaining more $$$). Maybe even making it more profitable than MSFS. the same concept as MSFS XBOX.

That's my point as well + add Xplane steam deck whenever it comes out (and steam do host 3rd party addons already so for this one it's only a matter of when, not if)

Edited December 30, 2021 by akita

[Greazer 1,320]

1 hour ago, akita said:

You do realize if all non pc platform users where actually part of this, the gap between Xplane and MSFS will be much smaller, maybe even the other way around?

Haha mobile version is downloaded for free and deleted after one flight and you want to count those 😂

[rka 916]

1 minute ago, akita said:

Art development. Better graphics/FPS.

I do agree however that XBOX/PS5 vs PC are more on par when it to comes to graphics/FPS than PC VS Mobile, but when talking numbers & $$$ you should never exclude other branches.

This survey is not just to debate who is more successful, it is also for developers who want to invest time, example; if tomorrow Xplane mobile is open to 3rd party's that is a door for an insane market, with products that might be easily ported. the same as MSFS XBOX.

That's my point as well + add Xplane steam deck whenever it comes out (and steam does host 3rd party addons already!)

Xbox is a PC.

Steam deck is a PC.

A PC is a PC.

A smartphone is - a smartphone.

Including smartphone users into the PC numbers is something else completely than including PC users in the PC numbers.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

6 minutes ago, jeansy said:

I dare say the level of xbox msfs users are far higher in RL than captured in the survey, as how many xboxers visit flight sim forums or give a hoot about a survey that triggered people cling to

at the same time the RL figures are no way near captured percentage wise in these surveys, if you take the number of sales per platform vs the number of respondents the outcome would show some different figures

for the ones arguing over inaccurate results, log off and watch a movie or go for a drive and enjoy life

I am skeptical of any survey, including the political ones for several reasons but they give a snap at a certain time of a population characteristics. They can be interesting if you take them with a pinch of salt.

That this one brings the parochial and sometime paranoid agitation of the usual suspects is another thing.

If they do have 22k respondents having filled the whole thing, I would consider it as reflecting well the population which was targeted, forums and online shops customers, to size up the after-sale markets of the sims.

Regarding the Xbox, the number of sales, the number of people having MSFS on their console and the actual users of the game,  are three different numbers. How they deviate from each others is not known.

 

[akita 429]

19 minutes ago, rka said:

Including smartphone users into the PC numbers is something else completely than including PC users in the PC numbers.

 

31 minutes ago, akita said:

This survey is not just to debate who is more successful, it is also for developers who want to invest time, example; if tomorrow Xplane mobile is open to 3rd party's that is a door for an insane market, with products that might be easily ported from PC (hence saving time gaining more $$$). Maybe even making it more profitable than MSFS. the same concept as MSFS XBOX.

Read this again please. Your list of semantics does not matter for that perspective.

If a future developer want to create an addon for MSFS Or Xplane, he will go for the one that has a wider market vs time invested (he can also do both, but let's assume it is not possible for the sake of argument).

For now MSFS is the clear winner, but if you add another 5M+ (again, android only) to the Xplane pool, and since Xplane mobile vs pc share a lot (hence porting a product might be rather straight forward), then this has a dramatic change.

But Xplane mobile is closed for 3rd party's for now, however this does not neglect it from being counted as a potential future market, hence I also mentioned steamDeck.

That's my point, surveys are not just to create some buzz around avsim, rather about assessing current situation but also "predict" future trends.

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by akita

[virtuali 4,419]

31 minutes ago, akita said:

This survey is not just to debate who is more successful, it is also for developers who want to invest time, example; if tomorrow Xplane mobile is open to 3rd party's that is a door for an insane market

It is "also" for developers ? I'd say it's mainly made for developers!  Especially considering Navigraph users (not necessarily subscribers, but at least people that know about them ) are probably the most hardcore simmers, which are the most attractive for developers.

Your example of X-plane mobile (or Infinite Flight) is very fitting: it might have millions of users but, as far as developers are concerned, it's basically as it didn't exists. I'm not sure, considering the way the mobile app store works, if 3rd party development for the mobile version is even possible.

Or take the FSX case: there are still quite a bit of users but, are they still buying things, or just using what they have, waiting to upgrade to a better sim ?

Edited December 30, 2021 by virtuali

[SAS443 1,703]

49 minutes ago, jeansy said:

for the ones arguing over inaccurate results, log off and watch a movie or go for a drive and enjoy life

Preposterous. We have lies, murders and plots in this thread that some forum knights need to act upon.

Let them fight their windmills. 😂

[akita 429]

8 minutes ago, virtuali said:

It is "also" for developers ? I'd say it's mainly made for developers!  Especially considering Navigraph users (not necessarily subscribers, but at least people that know about them ) are probably the most hardcore simmers, which are the most attractive for developers.

Your example of X-plane mobile (or Infinite Flight) is very fitting: it might have millions of users but, as far as developers are concerned, it's basically as it didn't exists. 

We do agree, but not on this: 

Quote

it's basically as it didn't exists. 

You already know what you already have.

But if I am developer, I WANT to know that Xplane has HUGE market that is closed to me that might open for the future. I want to know Xplane is coming to steamDeck. The same market you mention that does not exist, might think YOU don't exist, as well, not because no one is willing to invest

My point of why those numbers should not be excluded, never.

Edited December 30, 2021 by akita

[abrams_tank 7,387]

9 minutes ago, virtuali said:

It is "also" for developers ? I'd say it's mainly made for developers!  Especially considering Navigraph users (not necessarily subscribers, but at least people that know about them ) are probably the most hardcore simmers, which are the most attractive for developers.

Your example of X-plane mobile (or Infinite Flight) is very fitting: it might have millions of users but, as far as developers are concerned, it's basically as it didn't exists. I'm not sure, considering the way the mobile app store works, if 3rd party development for the mobile version is even possible.

Or take the FSX case: there are still quite a bit of users but, are they still buying things, or just using what they have, waiting to upgrade to a better sim ?

@akita I ignored you for so long, because your logic is really absurd.  I didn't want to waste time responding to you and your logic.

But here you have virtuali, who represents FSDreamTream, responding to you.  An actual 3rd party dev who is telling you why the mobile market doesn't help 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam.

For the longest time, I have said the mobile market does little to help 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam, PMDG, etc.  On the other hand, X-Box does help FSDreamTeam, PMDG, etc, because their products sell on X-Box.

@akita, wake me up when 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam and PMDG start making serious money from the mobile market.  Until then, read what virtuali wrote above and understand what he wrote since virtuali is an actual 3rd party dev that represents FSDreamTeam.

Edited December 30, 2021 by abrams_tank

[abrams_tank 7,387]

10 minutes ago, akita said:

But if I am developer

<sigh>  Virtuali is a 3rd party developer for FSDreamTeam!

Edited December 30, 2021 by abrams_tank

[virtuali 4,419]

Just now, akita said:

But if I am developer, I WANT to know that Xplane has HUGE market that is closed to me that might open for the future.

Without the IF ( since I AM a developer ), it would be crazy to invest my already extremely limited time, taking it away from the platforms the DO exists today, without knowing with absolute certainty if something like that will ever happen.

The way I see it, the only possible way to do that, would be all 3rd party developers should probably work for Laminar, which will then publish on the App stores. Sharing with Apple/Google AND Laminar that 0.99$ that most mobile users are prepared to spend on something...

[akita 429]

22 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

@akita I ignored you for so long, because your logic is really absurd.  I didn't want to waste time responding to you and your logic.

But here you have virtuali, who represents FSDreamTream, responding to you.  An actual 3rd party dev who is telling you why the mobile market doesn't help 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam.

For the longest time, I have said the mobile market does little to help 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam, PMDG, etc.  On the other hand, X-Box does help FSDreamTeam, PMDG, etc, because their products sell on X-Box.

@akita, wake me up when 3rd party devs like FSDreamTeam and PMDG start making serious money from the mobile market.  Until then, read what virtuali wrote above and understand what he wrote since virtuali is an actual 3rd party dev that represents FSDreamTeam.

 

20 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

<sigh>  Virtuali is a 3rd party developer for FSDreamTeam!

Still hiding behind other's quotes with nothing to add to the discussion,

17 minutes ago, virtuali said:

Without the IF ( since I AM a developer ), it would be crazy to invest my already extremely limited time, taking it away from the platforms the DO exists today, without knowing with absolute certainty if something like that will ever happen.

The way I see it, the only possible way to do that, would be all 3rd party developers should probably work for Laminar, which will then publish on the App stores. Sharing with Apple/Google AND Laminar that 0.99$ that most mobile users are prepared to spend on something...

The "If" is merely for the example, you are not the only developer, with all my respect, I can see the yellow/orange marks.

For others this data is meaningful, those mobile users in the future might find Xplane on steamDeck/PC (and 3rd party are already on the steam store) resulting in a big new market.

Watching data to confirm what one already know is not the point, giving other interesting data that will help developers and others thinking of how they can grow the business and how I can somehow get them IS my point. This does not mean one should rush creating more stuff/investing more for Xplane, but those numbers should be known and definitely not excluded because an MSFS user wants to set a narrative.

Edited December 30, 2021 by akita