Updating the navigation database question

[Guest ravey]

Hi all,I am a little confused and wanted to ask a question. I use Navigraph to keep a database of airport and enroute charts up to date and reasonably consistent with the real world. However, as a result, as time goes on, any changes to airways, fixes, SIDs etc will only be updated in my charts but not when I use MS FSX's Flight Planner which remains as per in the box.Navigraph offer AIRAC cycles which (in theory)update this information but it is only for FMS systems for products such as the PMDG add on B747. Are there any ways I can keep FSX's database of STARs, SIDs, navaids, airways etc up to date?ThanksDavid

[scott967 62]

It is possible to update the navaid, waypoint, route, and approach data in FSX. I'm not aware of any auto-updater for it. in principle it would be possible to extract all the default data to a data base, and use AIRAC cycles as a basis for determining any "deltas" which could then be added. The approaches would be the most difficult since it would be necessary to construct the required XML bglcomp format from the AIRAC .scott s..

[Guest ravey]

Cripes. That doesnt sound like a simple case of "install". Wouldnt know where to start.Frankly, given that Navigraph already do FMS databases for add-on aircraft, I would have thought it would have been straightforward to make one for FSX default aircraft but then I am not as technical in these things.Hmmm...well, thats annoying. Not much point paying Navigraph for up to date charts and stuff when the actual FSX navigation "world" becomes out of date and cant be updated to match the chart info...Thanks for your advice.

[N400QW 205]

>Cripes. >>That doesnt sound like a simple case of "install". Wouldnt>know where to start.>>Frankly, given that Navigraph already do FMS databases for>add-on aircraft, I would have thought it would have been>straightforward to make one for FSX default aircraft but then>I am not as technical in these things.>>Hmmm...well, thats annoying. Not much point paying Navigraph>for up to date charts and stuff when the actual FSX navigation>"world" becomes out of date and cant be updated to match the>chart info...>>Thanks for your advice.This is an old issue and is not specific to FSX. The question has always been "why update a DB such as Navigraph which for example: shows new runways, new frequencies, etc, when the SIM bgls do NOT contain the new runway??:-)"While DB updates do work well for FMS equipped aircraft, simmers may find a new STAR that brings them to an airport without that runway:-)

[Guest Andre77ab]

I hope so, that Richard from Navigraph will do something to update it or better....ACES Team regularly, will be fine every 3/6 months even....

[Guest Chris1973]

Isnt't the FS* database heavily encoded?

[RFields5421 1]

Updates can be done on an airport by airport basis. Jim Vile is the master, but many others have learned how to do them.The FSX SDK actually has a more detailed section on how to update/ create new approaches.One of the biggest problems with is FS is the way the data is layered.General navaids and waypoints are in the NVXnnnnn.BGL file in each scenery folder.Airport specific NDBs, terminal VORs and terminal waypoints are nested under the individual airport header in the APXnnnnn.bgl file.The visual antennas for VOR's, NDB,s and such are in the OBXnnnnn.bgl files.The visual antennas for localizers are in the APXnnnnn.bgl file - but above the airport data sections.Additionally, some airports have to be able to read/ share navaids and waypoints with other airport data - even one in a different scenery folder.An FS2004/ FSX approach contains a lot more data than just a series of waypoints - distances necessary for descent calculations. Almost all include several approach legs, missed approach legs, transition legs and holding patterns.It has to have all that data to ensure both User and AI aircraft work with the approaches. And it has some data which is not used, but we hope are placed holders for future features - either by MS or addon developers.Now the world wide database could probably be updated in one group of files - however any deletion or renaming of Navaids and intersections would probably require replacing default files.The download size would probably be huge - GB size.The AIRAC cycle updates for the FMS of the Gulfstream 200 my company has come on a DVD and are not updates, but replacements of the base database.

[Mace 1,902]

>>While DB updates do work well for FMS equipped aircraft,>simmers may find a new STAR that brings them to an airport>without that runway:-)>That would be an interesting short final breaking out of overcast 1000' AGL only to see no runway... :)RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[n4gix 4,947]

>While DB updates do work well for FMS equipped aircraft,>simmers may find a new STAR that brings them to an airport>without that runway:-)...or, bring them to an invisible runway at an airport that's also invisible... 'cause it wasn't built when the DB for FSX was created! :-laugh1

[RFields5421 1]

What is really going to be interesting is to see the same AIRAC data can be used in FS2004 and FSX.Many runways which are located about 100M different from their FS2004 positions.There are hundreds including a lot of major airports.

[Mace 1,902]

Is AIRAC data considered to be the "ultimate" in accuracy?Should I be using AIRAC data to locate my runways, etc.?I've been centering the runways on GoogleEarth. If that is not the best way for accuracy, I'd like to know.RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[RFields5421 1]

Google Earth, and the GPS satellites, use the WGS84 world grid. FS has used the WGS84 for several versions, maybe all versions. (WGS84 is World Geodetic System 1984 version)WGS84 is geocentric and globally consistent with +/- 1M.WGS84 uses Zero Meridian which is about 100M east of the Prime Meridian.WGS84 and North America Datum 1927 match longitude at about 85W - but others are off by varing amounts.If the Navaid is surveyed with NAD27 standards then it will be off by several meters. As is the county plat for the land where my home rests. Yes, a GPS and the land records do not match - but about 60M.So it boils down to there are at least two different ways to define a geographic position - which may be off by up to 100M in some locations.Also WGS84 was updated in 2004 to be valid until 2010. I have no idea if pre and post 2004 WGS84 positions have changed.There is also the impact of data reporting lag. When was the airport data last updated, when was it last surveyed, by which standard and to what accuracy.FS carries every decimal place of every measurement/ position to much more accuracy than measurements are made in the real world.GPS can be +/- 1.0MFS can be +/- 0.0000000000000001M If the AIRAC data includes geographic position references, those positions may be different than the same navaids/ intersections in FS2004 and FSX.If the AIRAC data only has the NAVAID / Waypoint names - then it should not be version specific.

[scott967 62]

In the US, a common situation is that new fixes are added for RNAV SIDs and STARs, in some cases also for RNAV approaches. Adding these fixes would help for those using FMS.scott s..