53 minutes ago, Adrian123 said:

Why does one even start these threads. To be cantankerous?

Probably, there seems to be some inherent need for one of these types of discussions to be ongoing here at Avsim, at all times. If there is not one ongoing some weird reverse vacuum will implode the entire site.

As I have asked before, and never received an answer: if MSFS is a game, who is my opponent, and how do I win?

3 minutes ago, cobalt said:

As I have asked before, and never received an answer: if MSFS is a game, who is my opponent, and how do I win?

There are lots of games you play alone without opponent.

35 minutes ago, crimplene said:

if MSFS is a game, who is my opponent, and how do I win?

Your opponent is the ground. If you have a friendly encounter with it, you win. 

1 hour ago, crimplene said:

There are lots of games you play alone without opponent.

Such as solitaire, agreed. But they have rules, and you win or lose. Where are the rules for MSFS?

https://guides.gamepressure.com/microsoft-flight-simulator/guide.asp?ID=55342

 

First flight

You're in the air! You can fly in any direction but not vertically into the ground.

🤣

19 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder how many days will go by, before we have another thread just like this one? 

 

On 1/4/2022 at 6:08 PM, ryanbatcund said:

This video means nothing.

My airliner friend was over once and flew the 747 under the golden gate - because he could.  You can do similar things in level D simulators.  It doesn't make it less of a simulation.

Well, if it shows a 747 - 8 flying with an airspeed of 90 kts, it's not a sim. At least as far as the 747 model is concerned.

A.

2 hours ago, ADamiani said:

Well, if it shows a 747 - 8 flying with an airspeed of 90 kts, it's not a sim. At least as far as the 747 model is concerned.

A.

Two things: An airfoil stalls at a high AoA, and you can fly a 747 at 80 knots, just not straight and level.

In the video the 748 entered an aerodynamic stall when it increased its AoA. You can tell by the AoA indicator on the left.

 

On 1/7/2022 at 2:11 AM, 109Sqn said:

And that is the crux of the matter - simulator means different things to different people

Maybe things might be clearer if instead of speaking of sim vs game, we would ask toy or tool ? 

MSFS is a toy for me but I see its clear unachieved potential as a tool. 

Game from what we see as default but a sim if Airbuses removed and in their place 747 inserted.

Edited January 8, 20224 yr by 40track

5 hours ago, WestAir said:

Two things: An airfoil stalls at a high AoA, and you can fly a 747 at 80 knots, just not straight and level.

In the video the 748 entered an aerodynamic stall when it increased its AoA. You can tell by the AoA indicator on the left.

 

So you say that what that video shows is realistic behaviour of a 747? 

You may fly level, but if you are too slow, your wings can't generate the lift you need to balance your weight. According to mr. Newton, at that point you fly like a brick,

A.

Edited January 8, 20224 yr by ADamiani

1 hour ago, ADamiani said:

So you say that what that video shows is realistic behaviour of a 747? 

You may fly level, but if you are too slow, your wings can't generate the lift you need to balance your weight. According to mr. Newton, at that point you fly like a brick

Again, you can stall at any airspeed. I can fly a 747 at 90 knots without the stick shaker going off, if I wanted. I can't do that in straight and level flight, but neither did the 748 in this video...

EDIT: I'm at work for the next 12 hours but when I get home I'm going to pull up the FCOM get some numbers and give you the dirty ZFW stall speed of the 747-800, then try and figure out at what fpm descent you could maintain to avoid stalling, and then if I feel up to it I'll do this same parabolic landing in a PMDG 748 and an XP11 SSG 748...

Unless someone else has today off and wants to help me out by doing it first. 😂

Edited January 8, 20224 yr by WestAir

seems to me that this question is less about the software (game/sim) but more about the self-image of the people using it. "I'm a serious kinda guy, me" versus "whoo-hoo! that was close!"

Each to their own, room for everybody.

Many flight simulators objectives are to familiarize pilots with their environment, procedures, instruments, etc.

There are different types of simulators of course, they also vary from type to type and from complexity to complexity.

Full motion simulators are probably the closer we can get to fly as per real world, you can lose control of an aircraft and depart controlled flight very quickly for many reasons.

Motion is one of them, for example upon landing on heavy cross wind, an small aircraft like a Cessna 152 can shake sideways quite fast, specially if you hit the toe brakes wrong in acordance with the wind direction at high runway rolling speed. The motion forces the pilot experience are sudden and will confuse very quickly any un-experienced pilots which will perform quick and fast mistakes, causing the aircraft to steer out of the runway and most likely suffer a prop strike or tip over.

In a simulator of course, these forces are not present and allows pilots to be able to do things differently, react differently and land in conditions were in real world they would not survive.

However it doesn't remove the factor it allows students to get familiar with procedures, learn the basics and be able to progress their training further. But you still required to have real flying experience, for many hours with an instructor in order to obtain a pilot license.. There is a reason for it..

Coming back to my example above, I could simulate these out of control forces in Msfs during landing, but most likely it will feel out of place since the motion feeling and disorientation factor are not present, so the reaction from most customers would be to mark this as a Bug with the flight model, causing a backlash of comments everywhere.

Where I am going with this? Each aircraft marketed for any platform has a different target and market based on user expectations and platform capabilities. As a developer you need to do your best to hit your target audience with correct expectations during different stages, from developing stage, to beta tests stage and the release stage.

In a complex software such as flight sims, it is important to judge the platform from multiple angles and take in consideration, the objective of the platform and the objective of any 3rd party developer delivering any product. So nothing is black or white as many people pretend to do with these posts and topics..

Regards,

Simbol