FSX SP4 Beta Posted.

[victorwest2 0]

>EDIT: I did mean the April/May threshold.What makes you think that it won't be out in May? Maybe this time next week all the speculation will be over and maybe it wont. Whenever it does come out I'll look foreward to seeing how the Aces team and the testers have spent their hard work.

[Guest]

>Not that I don't appreciate the hard work ACES must be putting>in, but I think I'm about to start refering to this as the>Duke Nukem Forever SP.HAHAHA! I was going to use that analogy a while back myself but I figured none of the old timers in here would understand what I was talking about. This patch definitely seems like a myth at this point but the longer they take the less excuses they have for it not being perfect. Hope is alive.________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

[Geofa 108]

Just trying to understand. If they put the patch out too early and it is buggy-everyone gets mad and blames Aces and the beta testers for putting out beta software. If they put it out late and it is real good but not "perfect" (is anything?) the Aces team and the beta testers will be blamed.If they put it out late and is perfect (probably impossible but let's dream)-everyone is still mad about the delay.Sounds like a winning situation to me! :-hanghttp://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[JSkorna 137]

nmJimhttp://www.hifisim.com/banners/hifi-community-sigbanner.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/

[Guest]

>Just trying to understand. If they put the patch out too>early and it is buggy-everyone gets mad and blames Aces and>the beta testers for putting out beta software. >>If they put it out late and it is real good but not "perfect">(is anything?) the Aces team and the beta testers will be>blamed.>>If they put it out late and is perfect (probably impossible>but let's dream)-everyone is still mad about the delay.>>Sounds like a winning situation to me! :-hang>>>>>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgWell let's not lose sight of the fact that the sim should have been released in an SP1 state from the get-go anyway. For whatever reason, probably bean counters or the pressure of the release of vista, it was not. I highly respect the fact that they are fixing the sim and being so forthcoming with us regarding the patch's status so don't take me wrong, but any blame that comes their way they ultimately brought on themselves. I really do believe that the sim will shine very soon though with SP1 and some of the amazing 3rd party addons that are coming out soon that have been in a holding pattern for 4 or 5 months now waiting for this to sort out. This year promises to be pretty incredible for simmers thanks to the power of this sim and the ability of the 3rd party devs to leverage it. I just wish it could have been done sooner had some different decisions been made at the right times by Aces...________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

[Buckster 0]

TRUTH be told - while I completely commend the current FSX team for supporting this forum and keeping us informed - really we shouldn't have been here in the 1st place.Do people really feel that FSX was a polished product that was sold in the 1st place - I personally- even though I've bought all the Flight Simulator titles - think probably not.Since it is very doubtful that any of the latest betas would have any effect on other programs (ie destroy windows installs etc) - why not give us the option to download an install the beta versions of SP1 ?Worst case you'll have to reinstall FSX.We get the chance to use betas on lots of other software - Microsoft included ! (Vista), Betas of games not even released. So whats the harm of releasing beta patches ?I'll be more than disappointed if the SP1 patch is not out by the end of the month. In fact it would be a complete farce.Since it sounds like substantial changes have been made to some of the core code - really you could treat it as:(1) We bought and have been playing an equivalent to a Beta 4 ..(2) SO where they are in the SP1 process is probably about RC1 (for COMPLETE game)(3) When its released perhaps we will have a RTM product !Yes FSX is a complex game -but its reflected in the price - the most expensive PC OR CONSOLE game I've bought so far - and thus I would have expected it to be polished in the first place. Does make me rather cross.Mark.

[LAdamson 240]

!>>Yes FSX is a complex game -but its reflected in the price ->the most expensive PC OR CONSOLE game I've bought so far - and>thus I would have expected it to be polished in the first>place. Does make me rather cross.>I don't remember any world wide flight sim as being polished or complete. The best flight simulations are always an on going effort, whether its in house or through 3rd party development. FS9 was just a cleaned up FS2002. FS2002 was a re-fined FS2000; and FSX is a much bigger and radical jump like FS98 to FS2000. Some people complain that FS2000 was a mess, but who would want to go back to the worldly structure of FS98?L.Adamson

[Buckster 0]

well I'm not sure thats a valid argument ? You're saying because its "complex" we can expect it not to be perfect ?Well it being complex is surely bared out in the price (the most expensive PC game you can buy (baring a few weirdies)) - and therefore additionally the size of the development team required to develop it ?The more complex the product - the more effort in development required - simple.World of Warcraft is a good example ... was very polished when released.Very very complex game.Mark.

[LAdamson 240]

>well I'm not sure thats a valid argument ? You're saying>because its "complex" we can expect it not to be perfect ?>snipped>World of Warcraft is a good example ... was very polished when>released.>Very very complex game.>That's just it. World of Warcraft is still limited in scope and can never be compared. FS products have to take on a complete, imperfect, and changing world as well as surrounding space.Topography, navigation, land class, flight dynamics, animation, sunrise/sunsets, stars, weather, ATC, specific and data base placed autogen, etc and etc. The list goes on and on, and each of the items listed could easily be a complete simulation within their own. L.Adamson

[Driver8 0]

Some of y'all sound like a broken record....C'mon, seriously, how the heck long have some of you been into playing stuff on a PC??"We've all been using a Beta, it should never have been released this way in the first place!" - SOMEONE says it for every FS release. Get off it... This is the oldest, most boring argument and someone says it for ANY piece of software that gets a patch. FS2000, MSTS, Auran Trainz, Age of Empires, the ENTIRE consumer Windows OS history, half of any add-on i've ever owned for FS, you name it, if it needs a patch at any point, SOMEONE says this... For cryin' out loud, LEARN your LESSON!! IF you want to play something new, be prepared for bugs! IF you don't want to play something with the risk of bugs, WAIT FOR THE PATCH. This applies to any piece of new software AND even new PC hardware! Otherwise, shuddup! You can't be BOTH impatient AND get perfection, if you think that then you're not living on Planet Earth."Taking forever to get it/I'm thinking Duke Nukem!" - i fail to see how this even REMOTELY compares! Duke's been YEAAARS! Something is delayed a couple freakin' months and this is what gets resorted to?? Read the last paragraph - ya want it NOW, or ya want it to WORK? Take your pick."When the patch is out, FINALLY we'll have the complete game!" - Yeah, and ya think there won't be any bugs? Right. Ain't gonna happen. I can still find glitches in FS2004, MSTS, Trainz, AoE, EVERYTHING. They're small, they're don't affect too much, but they're there, cause at some point, it financially don't make sense to keep going on with fixes, it's time for a new version (and if the companies WEREN'T tryin to make money, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE GAMES TO PLAY!!)...So... In short, LEARN THESE LESSONS, and either buy the stuff when it first comes out and DEAL WITH THE FACT that there's likely gonna be problems (like i did with FSX), or wait for a product to get patched and THEN buy it (like i'm doing with Vista)...Glad to hear that Beta4 was released, i am indeed looking forward to the SP1, so i'll return now to doing what i've been doing - PATIENTLY waiting for it, doin' some IFR airline flyin' with one of my add-ons in FS2004, and some VFR pond-hopping in FSX.

[greggerm 312]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ what he said.

[Guest MauiHawk]

>What makes you think that it won't be out in May? >Maybe this time next week all the speculation will be over and>maybe it wont. Whenever it does come out I'll look foreward to>seeing how the Aces team and the testers have spent their hard>work.As of March 4th Phil was still indicating the beta was to be out by the end of that week (March 9). The beta was actually posted on March 27.On the day the beta was released, Phil said to expect an April release of SP1.I appreciate the openess with which Phil has been sharing info, and I'm not questioning that there are not good reasons for the string of delays. But you can certainly see why it makes sense to interpret "We will ship SP1 in the month of May" as being very close to June 1 if not past it?Hey, my B-Day is June 2...

[MatthewS 761]

>Well let's not lose sight of the fact that the sim should have>been released in an SP1 state from the get-go anyway. Not in my opinion. At the moment I'm quite happy flying FSX without autogen or traffic.6 months of fun so far! You could try turning down autogen and traffic and enjoy what FSX has to offer.Yes I still have FS2004 installed. But haven't used it in 6 months.

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Hi Tom!After having looked at your signature dozens of times during my visits to AVSIM, I finally can't restrain myself anymore (grin)!Question: Ever wonder what it's like to fly a real Mustang?Answer: I once did, but since 1967 I know.Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest LSflyguy]

Driver8: Ditto what you just said. Very good post, and FINALLY someone brings a healthy dose of realism to this discussion. Everyone should also keep in mind that Microsoft is nearly unchallenged in the civilian flight sim market today. They could have gotten away with releasing a "boring" upgrade to FS9 that enhanced/fixed a few things but didn't offer any significant advancements. Even worse, they could have ported the entire FS franchise over to Xbox, marketed it for teenagers, and gained total control over the hardware compatibility issue. I could make a business case for doing this, but I hope to never see it happen. Instead, ACES decided to push the envelope significantly with FSX. I'd have gladly paid the cost of the Deluxe version JUST for the improved scenery textures, and that's only the tip of the iceberg on the list of new enhancements. To me, the new advances are FAR MORE IMPORTANT than the glitches they're fixing in SP1, and even today I can fly FSX with decent frame rates in all but the most high-density areas. Once SP1 is out, not to mention the later DX10 patch, I believe FSX will be an incredibly amazing advancement in flight simulation. Getting back to Driver8's main point, if we want to see continued advancement in a software package as complex as MSFS, we're bound to experience some headaches along the way. It's just a fact of life, folks. I feel the occasional headaches are a small price to pay if the tradeoff is continued advancement of the flight simulation hobby.