FSX SP4 Beta Posted.

[Guest MauiHawk]

You make some valid points, but I get just as sick of the attitude that people that purchase software shouldn't be free to discuss gripes with it. I am firmly in the camp that spending $ on software gives you every right to be as critical, impatient, etc as you care to be. Particularily when we are dealing with a product that has no competition, the only way its going to get better is if people gripe. ACES wouldn't be working on SP1 in everyone did what you said and quietly "DEALT WITH THE FACTS". (That's not to say the gripes can't be presented in a productive way)I'm also a litte annoyed that someone that displays your ANGER and FRUSTRATION toward a member that is satisfied with FSX is instantly banned or locked for degrading the quality of discussion in the forums. Yet the same ANGER and FRUSTRATION that is instead directed at a dissatisfied FSX customer is rewarded and applauded by the admins. I'm a software developer myself. I fully understand that as complex as software is these days, it is impossible to guarantee a perfect product. I have dealt with many outlandish complaints from customers that don't have the slightest inkling what they are asking for. But just as many of these customers should "DEAL WITH THE FACTS" that there are always going to be problems that crop up and we are doing our best to address them, so must our company "DEAL WITH THE FACTS" that customers are always going to be demanding better.I've mentioned time and again that I appreciate Phil's candor with us, and I fully recognize that his candor has, in part, fueled my impatience by giving me higher expectations that I might have otherwise had. And yes, I shared my frustrations when I probably could have just let it pass.But at the same time, I feel that I have kept my tone respectful-- and even if others haven't, I don't feel like you are adding anything useful to the discussion by adopting a poor tone yourself.

[Geofa 108]

"I'm also a litte annoyed that someone that displays your ANGER and FRUSTRATION toward a member that is satisfied with FSX is instantly banned or locked for degrading the quality of discussion in the forums. Yet the same ANGER and FRUSTRATION that is instead directed at a dissatisfied FSX customer is rewarded and applauded by the admins. "We try to be fair on both sides. If you are not happy here-I would suggest not coming here.I am a little confused though-if you are angry at fsx-why would you direct that anger toward at a customer/fellow simmer and not at the company that makes the product-which has a place to do so?http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[W2DR 1,859]

Bob opined "If Aces hadn't informed us about the prospect of sp1, there would be calm in fs land..." Actually, I believe just the opposite would have been true. I think the news regarding SP1, both the good and the bad, has gone a long way toward curbing the initial ill-feelings regarding the performance (or non-performance) of the initial release. In addition to the performance issues, MS had a serious PR problem and they had to fix both of them both. Had they not told the community what was going on, the ranting and complaining would have undoubtedly reached another all-time high. That being said, the proof of the calm will come with SP1 itself. If expectations are met, all will quiet down still more. But, if the performance gain is marginal and still lacks the headroom for complex addon development, I'd expect the noise level will rise again.Doug

[Guest MauiHawk]

>I am a little confused though-if you are angry at fsx-why>would you direct that anger toward at a customer/fellow simmer>and not at the company that makes the product-which has a>place to do so?Two answers for that. First, I'm not angry at the delay. I was disappointed. I'm trying to be patient, though I concede I'm not as patient as I should be. I was not really concerned that M$ or Aces got my DNF comparison (Ha! Funny random thought that DNF stands for Did Not Finish in racing competitions). It was more of just sharing my frustrations. The same way I share frustrations about my beloved Iowa Hawkeyes losing a game with my friends that also enjoy watching Iowa and on Iowa forums, not with my mother who could care less, and not by writing the coach himself.Second. For gripes I do think M$ and ACES need to hear about, ironically this forum is probably much better than the official gripe channels. Because Phil is kind enough to participate in this forum, I think ACES probably ends up more aware of gripes posted here rather than via M$ techical support or such that probably filters most of the complaints before they get to ACES.Again, I'm honestly not angry about the delay. At this point I truely believe that ACES is doing the best they can to make the community happy. But I don't think that should mean that people can't share a different opinion or share an opinion that despite ACES's best efforts, they were hoping for better.

[Guest]

>Again, I'm honestly not angry about the delay. At this point>I truely believe that ACES is doing the best they can to make>the community happy. But I don't think that should mean that>people can't share a different opinion or share an opinion>that despite ACES's best efforts, they were hoping for>better.I think for the most part the mods allow both sides to talk freely as long as it is done respectfully. Alcott really has been a constant PITA for a while now and her condescending and brash reactionary replies are what got her banned imo. I consider myself neutral in this thing as I love/hate FSX but I do see its amazing potential now that the bean counters/PM's have been pushed to the back and have let the coders finish the product the way that it should have been done from the beginning. This could only have happened because of the constant complaining and belittling that the sim has received all over the net re: its performance. Like it or not without the griping and complaining customers none of us would be getting an SP1.________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

[Guest Challenger604]

I flew from KSMX to KSMY today and have been re-exploring FSX because I finally got a decent jotystick. My only problem is that at the end of my flight the FPS drops to below 5 with huge shutters.I start out at 20FPS but within an hour of flight and especially at the landing airport FPS goes to 5 or below.Now I only have 1 Meg of RAM but I wonder if SP1 will help me with this issue?Anyone have any idea? Phil??

[Guest]

>Rest assured that no airplane crash (including Air France 296)>has been caused by software bugs. The fly-by-wire system for>the A320 is assuredly NOT "full of bugs.">Here's another good one. Apparently the Eurofighter has its share of computer problems as well. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/25/mod_leak/Eurofighter at risk of 'catastrophic failure'Leaked MOD report cites computer 'corruption'Problems with the computer systems on board the Eurofighter jet, signed into service with the RAF less than two weeks ago, could cause a "catastrophic" failure in flight, according to a confidential Ministry of Defence report leaked to former BBC journalist Andrew Gilligan.The report contained the findings and recommendations of test pilots who had flown the jet for eight months. They concluded that the problems are so bad that the plane should not be used for complex manoeuvres, such as those in aerial combat, and should not fly in cloud without a second, experienced, pilot on board.

[beatle 0]

Hey MauiHawk,<>While I certainly don't want to discourage you (or anyone else) from talking about issues here, issues and suggestions sent to tell_fs@microsoft.com or submitted via the feedback link on http://fsinsider.com both go into a database at work that several folks on the team look at at least weekly (possibly daily for some of them), so do send them via those channels also.(I just checked the newly redone FSINSIDER site, and while there isn't a Send us Feedback link on the main page, any of the sub pages accessed via the menu on the left side has that link near the bottom)

[Guest MauiHawk]

... maybe I'll send some encouragement to keep the DX10 patch prioritized about Adrenaline :D

[Guest JackDanielsDrinker]

>I flew from KSMX to KSMY today and have been re-exploring FSX>because I finally got a decent jotystick. My only problem is>that at the end of my flight the FPS drops to below 5 with>huge shutters.>>I start out at 20FPS but within an hour of flight and>especially at the landing airport FPS goes to 5 or below.>>Now I only have 1 Meg of RAM but I wonder if SP1 will help me>with this issue?>>Anyone have any idea? Phil??Going to 2 gigs of RAM would really help you. To know for sure, see if you're paging towards the end of your flight when the FPS drops (go back to the desktop and check Task Manager). If you are, RAM is your problem.

[Guest chrishunt]

I rarely post here but I do lurk ;-)I must disagree, in part, with Driver8 - I agree that there are often bugs with new software and that many bugs are fixed with patches (some sooner than others) and that, often, some bugs remain - some never to be fixed. However (and you knew there would be one) I believe MS shot themselves in the foot with a too soon release for FSX - bugs are allowed but too many of the fundamentals were completely wrong; performance - much has been said already but the excuse that FSX was built for future hardware could only have been dreamt up by a marketing dempartment. Textures - where did these come from? I would guess from people who don't get out much. SDK - not ready, excusable perhaps but the FS franchise succeeds mostly because of the very many 3rd party developers who contribute so much. Many more to list but pointless here.Having said all the above I think that, for once, MS have been very proactive and are doing the right thing on spending a good deal of time (and money) on the essential service pack (and hopefully others to follow). The updates from Phil and others are very welcome, a practice not always done by other software companies - thanks for these (and the hard work of course).Note that this post is not meant to be a rant or a dig at Aces; as someone else here said - they did what the could under the circumstances, not the first and certainly not the last either.If anyone wants to take a potshot please feel free but I don't care one way or another - just make it balanced and don't #%^#@ SHOUT. Time for some wine I think.BTW I do have FSX (bought it for my Bday last year) but haven't used it for 3 months or so.

[Mace 1,902]

>... maybe I'll send some encouragement to keep the DX10 patch>prioritized about Adrenaline :DFYI I heard it's probably not going to be called Adrenaline anymore...RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case