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Alec

HotStart Challenger 650 First Impressions

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Hey all. Since the other topic has gone to 10 pages, and I couldnt find a post focusing about Post Release Impressions and Personal Review, I thought I might give my own here. And hope other users who also get it can give their own as well.

The addon is one I have been looking forward for almost 2 years, since I first learned of the project. Since then, I have switched Sims multiple times, but as you will soon understand, it doesn't matter which sim you prefer, with this specific Addon.

Let me first say, if you want a quick and easy addon for jump in, get some rough fuel numbers, upload a flightplan from the internet, and takeoff, this is not for you. Just make yourself this question. Would I be able to do "x" in the real plane? If the answer is no, then you can't do it in the HS CL650. And it starts at Fueling. To make clear, and this also got me by surprise, this addon requires proper procedure for refuel. And this is one example that I think makes the philosophy of the addon very clear.

How does Fuel get into your airplane. The Fuel Truck arrives, and the Fuel guy will connect the Hose to your plane. Does he knows how much fuel you need for your Flight? no Does he know how many Tanks your Jet have? Does he knows which tank needs to be filled first? Also no. So, you as a Pilot, is in charge of that, First you go to the Refueling Panel inside the Cockpit, turn on the System, and Open the Valves for the Main Tanks, to allow Pressurized Fuel to enter the Tanks. After that gets filled, you will open the Auxiliary Tanks, which also fill the Tail Tank. Did I mention this airplane has 10 Fuel Tanks? More than a 737 or A320. In fact, this Aircraft, although a Smaller BizJet than the usual Airliners we are used to flight, has a more complex System Operation than most Airliner you are used to. Now, you get the quantity of Fuel you like. Close the Valves, Ok. But then you notice, why is my Fuel Quantity Still going up? Because the Sensors doesn't totalize imediatelly, it needs time to Sum internally. And also, they are not as realiable as you would think.

Now, let's take this Philosophy to the entire rest of the Simulation. How does your FMS knows your location? It will try to syncronize to the GPS sattelites. Depending on where you are on the Globe, you might have more, or less Sattelites available for you to track. And this will vary your Navigation Precision. Worst case scenario, you can't get a reliable GPS signal, and you are back to the Past, relying on the 3 IRSs and Radio Navigation. Talking about the IRSs, they actually work, not by magically reading the Data from the Simulator for your location. There is no magic here. Everything needs a reason to exist, information can't come from nowhere. So, they actually do the same calculation as a real IRS would do. If your airplane move before you finish aligning them, you have a problem. You will also notice, sometimes, your Synthetic Vision, on the PFD, while you are Stationary on the Ground, is constantly moving a little around. That's not a bug, That's because the Synthetic Vision needs the GPS and INS data to know where you are. No magic Numbers here. And as much as you want, you are never 100% exact. So, the system will shift your known position, even if for just half a meter.

Now, your Engine, they are also being simulated in real time, nothing is scripted, its all Physics, generating the values. Are you flying at a very low TAT? Your Fuel Controller will notice that, and adjust your Max Power Available based on that. Numerous reports have appeared of users that can't increase the Engines past a certain %N2, and that is because they let themselves get too slow, on a very low ISA, and if you don't keep the TAT high enough, you are in trouble. Speaking of the engine, the APU is itself a work of art as well. Use the APU Bleed, and notice your APU ITT getting higher, because it needs to use more Fuel to keep the same Core Speed. Again, all Phisically simulated, nothing here is based on Tables or a Script. 

Flying it also feels like a Challenge (Pun intended). You never feel like you are not flying a very high performance Jet. You will have to deal with the fact the engines mounted at the top of the Tail will make your nose pitch down with power, and up without. This takes getting used to, and lots of Trimming. The entire time, if feels you are really in control of something so unique and powerful, beautifully balanced, but at the same time, that can bite you pretty quickly, if you don't treat it with respect.

To finish, since this has already taken way more lines than I could predict.

This Addon doesn't Raise the Bar. It creates a whole new Category of it's own. The other Developers don;'t need to worry of losing costumers to this one. It's not a competition. It's not about FS2020, X-Plane, P3D, it doesnt matter. This is a Full Simulation, inside a Simulator. It is as Standalone as Possible, without ditching the Base Sim and going Solo. It doesn't get any higher than this. What I have felt so far, goes beyong anything I have ever experienced on a Desktop, the only thing that came close to this for me, was a real experience on a Level D Simulator. And I say this with full confidence. You can't get any simulation as realistic as this one on your Simulator, no matter which. This is a Landmark in the Simulation History. What goes inside this, is beyond your and my imagination. 

Hope this brings some useful Impressions and Information for all. 

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Alexis Mefano

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Thank you very much for your review Alexis. That is the impression I have of the add-on from watching the developer videos and was waiting for some first impressions. Would you be able to comment on the FBO feature?

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Thanks. I'd like to hear more from those who have this. Sounds interesting. The other thread is a disaster...

I'm not surprised with the detail. I have the TBM or w/e their other later project is. The detail was really something and I thought it was the best non-airline addon I have for X-Plane.

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Richard Chafey

 

i7-8700K @4.8GHz - 32Gb @3200  - ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero - EVGA RTX3090 - 3840x2160 Res - KBSim Gunfighter - Thrustmaster Warthog dual throttles - Crosswind V3 pedals

MSFS 2020, DCS

 

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Hi guys, very well said Alexis, you are spot on about this aircraft, I wont go on but it truely is mind blowing what Hotstart have done here, I am blown away by this aircraft, Ive only had it 5 hours and I have just managed a full circuit, it took me forever to get it started (a lot of patience and some studying) using the correct precedures, checklists etc and I have just landed just 10 mins ago and read your post. I am 54 years old and been simming 23 years, never seen anything like this, its absoluletyl fantastic but defo not a plane you can just hop in and take off!

 

Again.....very well said...brilliant!

Regards

Paul EGCC

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Regards

Paul EGCC

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Greetings, A couple of thoughts.

I'd like to know if there is a way to bypass this FBO adventure, involved fueling, communicating with Jenny re passengers etc.

I retired about 6 years ago after flying for 40 years and for me while I have no doubt the FBO can be a great learning curve and window  on aviation for those with the interest more often than not I'd like to just hop in, program the fmc and go. I use Foreflight for my flight planning. I simply wish to enjoy the great aircraft the Hotstart CL650 is.

So is there a way to bypass the FBO and just just go? Thanks.

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3 hours ago, dbw1 said:

So is there a way to bypass the FBO and just just go? Thanks.

Yes. When you first load the aircraft, it gives you two options: career and training mode. Select the latter option to bypass the FBO. Doing so will let you jump straight into a cold and dark cockpit.

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After the superb post by Alec above - btw, Alec had ATPL qualifications before the crisis... - the great friend who revealed to me the wonders of this CL650 as well as of the TBM, all I can say is by video, leaving here a few  AMAZING landings by CMBeliteFR , with the BEST ADD-ON EVER, at the most beautiful town ever, of the best country ever, where the most beautiful gals in the Whole World - ever - live, together with the greatest Uninstaller ever !!!

Will greazer or jarmstro ever find the guts to deny this ? Will mSparks drop his rotary blades and fall in Love with X-Aviation ? Will Goran and Cameron end up like freaking MFS youtubers ? Will this stuff I smoked this morning for the flu stop having side effects ????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JR0GImYudI

Edited by Anatoli-Kagari9
More silly stuff....

Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

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13 hours ago, Andistio said:

Thank you very much for your review Alexis. That is the impression I have of the add-on from watching the developer videos and was waiting for some first impressions. Would you be able to comment on the FBO feature?

 

12 hours ago, dbw1 said:

Greetings, A couple of thoughts.

I'd like to know if there is a way to bypass this FBO adventure, involved fueling, communicating with Jenny re passengers etc.

I retired about 6 years ago after flying for 40 years and for me while I have no doubt the FBO can be a great learning curve and window  on aviation for those with the interest more often than not I'd like to just hop in, program the fmc and go. I use Foreflight for my flight planning. I simply wish to enjoy the great aircraft the Hotstart CL650 is.

So is there a way to bypass the FBO and just just go? Thanks.

 

The FBO is a very welcome addition, to bring immersion into the Simulation. But I understand the worry of some, if the FBO is tied to the Addon in a way that it becomes more of a Pilot Simulator than a Plane Simulator. Some don't like that idea. The good news is that, the FBO is NOT tired to the rest of the simulation in a way that you need to go through it's steps to fly. In fact, when the Sim Opens, you can press the Shortcut to Jump to the Pilot's Cockpit Seat, and there goes the FBO away. So, don't really worry about that. Also, the FBO in fact, is so fast to do what is needed, after you get used to it, it gets faster to do stuff through the FBO than going through Menus. But, if you want, the Menus are there for everything. You can call the Fuel Truck, Ground Assistance, Chocks, all of it. But I found way better, more immersive and even faster, to fill the page at the FBO, asking Number of Pax, what Ground Service is going to be needed, etc, and while you are making your Preflight Preparations, stuff just arrive for you, you never even touch a Menu.

If you don't even want to look at the FBO, you have the option of going to the Non Persistance Mode, instead of Carrer Mode. The difference? Carrer Mode has the incredibly usefull AutoSave Feature. It not only saves your Flight every 20 Seconds, so you are CTD proof, if Saves Automatically at Takeoff and Landing, so you can do those again for whatever reason. And everything is persistence, so next time you open the Sim, the Aircraft will be just like you left it, same Fuel Quantity, everything. I don't see why someone wouldn't go for this mode really.

Hope it helped 🙂

4 hours ago, Anatoli-Kagari9 said:

After the superb post by Alec above - btw, Alec had ATPL qualifications before the crisis... - the great friend who revealed to me the wonders of this CL650 as well as of the TBM, all I can say is by video, leaving here a few  AMAZING landings by CMBeliteFR , with the BEST ADD-ON EVER, at the most beautiful town ever, of the best country ever, where the most beautiful gals in the Whole World - ever - live, together with the greatest Uninstaller ever !!!

Will greazer or jarmstro ever find the guts to deny this ? Will mSparks drop his rotary blades and fall in Love with X-Aviation ? Will Goran and Cameron end up like freaking MFS youtubers ? Will this stuff I smoked this morning for the flu stop having side effects ????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JR0GImYudI

😅🤣 That is some good Medication! Give me some!! Just don't tell my Wife 😁

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Alexis Mefano

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Greetings Alec, Alexis & others,

Thanks very for this additional information and insight. Really appreciated.

Dave

Edited by dbw1
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In short this add-on is just another level. I second everything the OP has said. Please if you buy this, remember it is not a "Fly now plane" you have to have the mind set that you are doing this for real. It will punish you if you try to cut corners. No you dont have to do every check list, but you also cant get complacent. I have spent all Saturday and most of today on this, learning etc.. Lucky for me the wife is studying for a course so I have had much free time and she saw me using it whilst going through mountains of printed check lists and she was wow I get it now, I understand why you like this stuff 🙂. It is amazing from Start to finish!

 

Pro Tip: Make sure you bind a key for the CL650 Auto Throttle Disengage, or press the buttons on the front underside of the throttles, if you dont you can end up with a failed ATS and that is a pain, doable but a real pain. ICE really affects this plane too, it will punish you if you let it runaway. I have done 5 very succesful flights with it, last one EGFF-LIEO landing on RWY30 with serious gusts up to 32K not sure if that would be allowed IRL, but it handled it pretty well.

 

Another tip use the FIN number in simbreif to recall the flight plan and in the Settings SIMBREIF ID is your number ID not your USername.

Edited by a321
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Thank you Alexis for your extensive comments and remarks, that pretty much sealed the deal for me.

I also found time to watch V1 Simulations video yesterday and will be picking up the plane. Been using flight simulators going on 25 years now and it's incredible to see how far it has come. I'm not going to lie, there was a moment I thought it's too good to be true and there must be a catch but reading and seeing the reviews proves otherwise.

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Can you input your flight plan manually just from the FMC or only through the FBO?


Alexander Colka

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You can enter it manually in the plane as you can in any other add-on. I'd recommend taking a look at V1's video. The FBO seems to be there to order services like fuel, passengers, GPU etc. and to add to the immersion in general.

 

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19 minutes ago, alexcolka said:

Can you input your flight plan manually just from the FMC or only through the FBO?

Of course! The FBO is not what some are thinking. It's just an Immersion Feature, not a limiting and punishing thing to Sim Pilots who don't want to have a 100% Pilot Simulation. The entire Aircraft Simulation works just as it would in any other addon. In no way, you need the FBO to do anything you wouldn't be able through the Menus. You still have the same job as a pilot in command. The FBO is basically going to ask you how many Passengers goes onboard (which is you dont want, you can open the X-Plane Loading Manager and set Payload Manually), if you need Ground Services, Pushback, De-Icing, etc. And that's it. At the cockpit, you can still request all those, some via Smart Menus, all via standard menus from X-Plane. It's not going to limit in any way what you want to do with your plane 😉

Edited by Alec

Alexis Mefano

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