Shadowing Real World Flights

[gb09f 298]

Hey all and Happy New Year!

I've never got into Vatsim for various reasons.  My thing is shadowing real-world flights.

I look up a flight in FlightAware, check Flight Radar 24 for runways in use and use SimBrief to plan the flight.

I then program the FMS as per the real world flight plan, tune into LiveATC and basically follow the flight as closely as possible.

It's incredible how close to life the flight becomes.  For example, I'm shadowing Alaska 821 from KBZN to KSEA. 

Real world ground speed according to Flight Radar 24 is 392Kts at 380.  Sim ground speed is 391 Kts albeit in a different aircraft.

Anyone else do this or am I weird?

Cheers!

GB09F

 

 

[johnbow72 2,722]

Wierd , heck no were flight simmer's , we will try anyyhing at least once . Actually your flight sounds very interesting to me .

[FlightSimToday 59]

36 minutes ago, gb09f said:

Hey all and Happy New Year!

I've never got into Vatsim for various reasons.  My thing is shadowing real-world flights.

I look up a flight in FlightAware, check Flight Radar 24 for runways in use and use SimBrief to plan the flight.

I then program the FMS as per the real world flight plan, tune into LiveATC and basically follow the flight as closely as possible.

It's incredible how close to life the flight becomes.  For example, I'm shadowing Alaska 821 from KBZN to KSEA. 

Real world ground speed according to Flight Radar 24 is 392Kts at 380.  Sim ground speed is 391 Kts albeit in a different aircraft.

Anyone else do this or am I weird?

Cheers!

GB09F

 

 

I love the idea that you have on this one. Great for the US using real ATC that you can follow. 

I could have done this the other night into LGA too if I had thought about it. By pure chance a real world same leg flight was shadowing me......yeh that's the correct way around haha 

[M3Stang 27]

I have done this too!

[united001 126]

I too find what you are doing very interesting, and I love reading about how other approach their MSFS experiences, but I will not do the same. I have logged over 900 hours of shameless minimalism. Happy to take off and land the FBWA320 around big airports with very little add-ons. MSFS is a wonderful sand-box that way. Happy flying everyone!

United001

Edited January 9, 2022 by united001

[MikeyOnTheFlightDeck 191]

I had the same idea but never bothered to try it out over doubts I had that MSFS would mirror real world flights that well. Maybe I should be less skeptical and try it!

[aniiran 431]

2 hours ago, gb09f said:

Hey all and Happy New Year!

I've never got into Vatsim for various reasons.  My thing is shadowing real-world flights.

I look up a flight in FlightAware, check Flight Radar 24 for runways in use and use SimBrief to plan the flight.

I then program the FMS as per the real world flight plan, tune into LiveATC and basically follow the flight as closely as possible.

It's incredible how close to life the flight becomes.  For example, I'm shadowing Alaska 821 from KBZN to KSEA. 

Real world ground speed according to Flight Radar 24 is 392Kts at 380.  Sim ground speed is 391 Kts albeit in a different aircraft.

Anyone else do this or am I weird?

Cheers!

GB09F

 

 

Similar, but I don't follow them in Realtime and don't use live ATC. I only do the flight if the type is realistic.  For instance, I don't do any B737 flights currently because we don't have a good B 737.   

I like variety.  I'm kind of bored of the A320NX.  Recently, I have been into the heavily community modded CS777.  It's amazing to me how many US domestic routes are using the 777.  I found a crazy one last night and replicated it UAL 1124 KSFO-KLAS on a B772.  Outside of Japan or special hops that has to be the shortest 777 flight.

Edited January 9, 2022 by aniiran

[HGNK 20]

Weird is good! Yes been doing this for years.

I started in VATSIM decades ago, then found that the realism of live ATC was my preference (no disrespect to online flying - it is a great experience I did for years).

My present routine is to have live ATC on during a sim flight as chatter, because mirroring an actual flight can be a bit stressful. I prefer a more leisurely experience now. I tend to avoid ground and tower frequencies as I taxi to a runway or when landing to avoid a clash between the real world and my sim airport. I simply tune into other frequencies at that time, but the rest of the flight I am tuned into the correct frequency.

I shadowed/mirrored an Air France flight from LSZH to Paris a few times a week for a long time and learnt an enormous amount about this particular flight. What you learn from this cannot be fully summarised. After decades of following ATC (without flying the route) online, mirroring a flight is the ultimate experience. But it can be stressful (in a similar way to how a real flight is - I would get an airport high for days after a GA flight at my local field).

Some tips for shadowing:

1. avoid difficult airspace like New York with a huge number of frequency changes (depending on your aircraft choice of course). I liked the heavies and the frequency changes are hectic and rapid. I found Paris Zurich the perfect blend of easy frequencies for me to follow. I have done others in the US as well - short regional flights, and quite a few long haul transcontinental flights 6+ hours - that is a real challenge.

2. departures are the easiest to shadow. Clearance delivery, ground all take a long time and it is easier to follow. Delays and weather add an extra dimension to your simming you can't get any other way. One hour+ delays can be annoying though. Clearance delivery is patchy - I prefer to simply monitor ground.

3. don't worry if you lose a flight enroute. If you are familiar with the flight and frequencies you can often pick it up enroute later.

4. landing is the hardest. I tended to follow a flight to the runway intercept/tower handoff and then tune out to another frequency. Matching the landing is super hard - I think I managed the timing there once.

5. flightaware will often show you the flight plan including STARS and SIDS and waypoints just before a flight is scheduled and shows historical data for your flight. After a while you get familiar with the route and need this less. But this helps with planning.

6. the shorter the flight the easier it will be to match especially the arrival. The closer you get to the destination runway, the harder it is to shadow. I think the transcontinentals I only ever did a departure or an arrival - not a whole flight - too hard.

Its fun, but done right you will feel the stress of the timing and ATC handoffs all while flying the route. Glad I did it and may do it again soon.

With regard to the stress I should point out that the simmer's stress is more often a case of computer stress than actual flying - managing the liveATC frequencies/lags and dropouts, internet connections, timezones, etc...

Edited January 9, 2022 by HGNK

[HGNK 20]

A comment about the real world and simming and aircraft performance.

Many years ago I did 2 hours of circuit training in a real piper warrior at my local field. I came home that day and fired up MSFS. The closest plane I had was the mooney bravo (a completely different aircraft). I left the wheels down and did my entire circuit training (what I had done a few hours before) - used the same engine and similar flap settings (the numbers) and was amazed to see that it behaved much the same. I have never looked at simulators the same again - they are sophisticated engineering simulations with inertias and accelerations etc, most of the physics coded in. Only wind modelling (and some other special things) seems to be sometimes lacking.

That was my experience - others may vary, but I was very impressed.

Edited January 9, 2022 by HGNK

[Noel 4,499]

5 hours ago, gb09f said:

Anyone else do this or am I weird?

Don't take it personally all flight sim fanatics are weird--just ask my wife!

I have been an avid fan of FSCaptain for P3D, and can't wait until they have a more complete product for MSFS.  It adds that sense of purpse that can be lacking in any flight sim and I never flew P3D once w/o it once I got on to FSC.   I will play around with this idea except it sure will be nice when MSFS restores takeoffs of FlightAware flights--be very cool to line behind the RW flight.  Seems like they did a while back...

[Farlis 2,287]

6 hours ago, gb09f said:

Anyone else do this or am I weird?

It's the only type of airline operations I do, when I fly airliners. Been doing it for years.