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PMDG update[11 jan]

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12 minutes ago, eaim1973 said:

Just as an example I'm British and I had holidays I had to take or lose so from about 9th December I was off work (Rolls Royce) on holiday until the 5th of January I was back for a few days then been off work with Covid, and I'm still in isolation, Asobo could well be in a similar situation with some of it's staff.

That's insane to me! Culture shock is real, haha.

For comparison, I get 2 weeks off a year. I work holidays.

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after more than a week off I'm miserable.  


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21 minutes ago, WestAir said:

For comparison, I get 2 weeks off a year. I work holidays.

That’s crazy to think, I’m in the UK as well and like eaim, I was off the same Christmas period and had a further 6 weeks or so holiday off over the rest of 2021, it’s interesting how different the cultures are towards working 

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21 hours ago, Jeff Nielsen said:

I hear you.  Don't disagree with anything there, but remember, they were aiming to be in beta about 3 months ago.  Something stopped them cold in their tracks. Anyways, I'm probably reading way too much into this. 

I would take this much further:  "The difference is, the Fenix A320 could be the highest fidelity aircraft ever released for a flight simulator (ie. the most "study level" among "study level" aircraft for flight sims)."  from what we've seen just on the navigational side of the house, IT WILL BE the most advanced aircraft for ANY sim when released...hehe.

Hey Jeff. I got around to finding the exact quotes from Aamir from Fenix.  Here, Aamir says Fenix only works with the "mature aspects of the MSFS SDK":

Aamir also gave an update after SU7 where he said the productivity of the Fenix team was doing very good, and it appears Fenix's productivity after SU7 is the polar opposite of PMDG, who have apparently suffered a setback after SU7.  Here are Aamir's exact words:

Quote

We’re very happy with the direction of MSFS and its respective development tools – Sim Update 7 has improved our ability to quickly iterate new testing builds, and overall our development rate has accelerated significantly as new updates release for the title.

 


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13 hours ago, bendead said:

Latest Robert reply to this message

Marvin- That is cute. So in reality, he knows nothing about what I'm talking about, yet he is confident enough in his lack of knowledge to mis-attribute the blocker I referred to as being SDK related when in fact I mentioned specifically it was platform side... When you have as many wrinkles, grey hair and aching joints as I do- you have watched a fair number of people stride confidently into the plate-glass door of their own ineptitude. We have just watched one more. LOL - RSR

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/157360-11jan22-happy-new-year-probably-let-s-get-started?p=158050#post158050

Things really start to heat up, not in a good way and we still don't know what the problem/blocker is exactly.

I'm going to preface this with a disclaimer: whatever opinions I have expressed in this thread are those of my own, not necessarily the FBW team.

The SDK is synonymous with the platform in the context of MSFS - the SDK is the developer-side interface to the platform. If the sim (platform) is lacking functionality or implements functionality incorrectly, then the API's available through the SDK will also lack that correct functionality. IBM defines this relationship as follows: "SDK stands for software development kit. Also known as a devkit, the SDK is a set of software-building tools for a specific platform." [1]. If something isn't available on the platform, then it won't be available in the SDK.

 

I see no reason to comment on this issue any further - I simply stated the truth, but Randazzo felt the need to resort to straw man [2] and ad hominem [3] fallacies in his frankly unprofessional response.

I wish the PMDG team the best of luck in their development, and look forward to flying their aircraft.

 

[1]: https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/sdk-vs-api

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

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46 minutes ago, IcemanFBW said:

I'm going to preface this with a disclaimer: whatever opinions I have expressed in this thread are those of my own, not necessarily the FBW team.

The SDK is synonymous with the platform in the context of MSFS - the SDK is the developer-side interface to the platform. If the sim (platform) is lacking functionality or implements functionality incorrectly, then the API's available through the SDK will also lack that correct functionality. IBM defines this relationship as follows: "SDK stands for software development kit. Also known as a devkit, the SDK is a set of software-building tools for a specific platform." [1]. If something isn't available on the platform, then it won't be available in the SDK.

 

I see no reason to comment on this issue any further - I simply stated the truth, but Randazzo felt the need to resort to straw man [2] and ad hominem [3] fallacies in his frankly unprofessional response.

I wish the PMDG team the best of luck in their development, and look forward to flying their aircraft.

 

[1]: https://www.ibm.com/cloud/blog/sdk-vs-api

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

No reply needed to this.

I'm not a coder. I'm not a painter. I don't create mods. I'm a simple firefighter who enjoys aviation and doing it in my spare time. I really hope in the next couple years we can all look back and laugh at some of the petty moments that we've seen over the last 48 hours. I don't personally agree with RSRs comments but they make a good product and I'll continue to buy it. With that said, I'm not an Airbus guy, but I have the utmost respect for the team at FBW/WT and all of the other community modders who have volunteered their time to make this hobby as much fun as they can. RSR said it himself... he's got wrinkles, grey hair, and aching joints.... those are the guys you're supposed to be able to lean on for advice, get help from, and are generally wiser. It's a shame in his age he still hasn't been humbled enough.

With that said, I'm also disappointed in Asobo. I think this is a two way street. I wont beat the dead horse since it's been argued here over and over now, but they have some responsibility here too and I hope they make right in the next dev Q&A and cover some of this. The topic with the most votes is regarding this very thing. I hope they take that seriously and spend some time covering it.

To finish up, Iceman, FBW, WT, and all of the other mod teams out there, Thank you! You guys rock. You guys are absolute rock stars a long with everyone else who has the talent to make what we do better. I look forward to updates every day (Even if I am partial to Boeing). Hopefully PMDG will start to sing a different tune in the near future and those grey hairs will humble just slightly. Lastly, hopefully Asobo can make right some of the issues that supposedly hold back a great product and more!

Edited by Keirtt
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14 hours ago, EasternT3 said:

That is the entire issue in a nutshell, Asobo do help, however there’s one issue, it has probably fallen at the wrong time with Xmas and SU8, but unfortunately the one issue blocks the release, which is why you can understand frustration by RSR,

 

 

Isn't it 100+ days, according to Randazzo on the lack of follow up communication from ABOSO?

 

If so, you can't realistically claim Christmas and SU8 suddenly got in the way?

 

If ABOSO had any interest at all in helping to get this add-on off the ground and It's the one last issue holding it up, I can't see why they would stall for this long!

 

Maybe PMDG made the fatal mistake of trying to release this for the MS Store and Xbox compatibility when FENIX just went for the hardcore simmers on PC only?

 

 

 

Edited by Kilo60

Chris Camp

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21 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This doesn’t make any sense though. Microsoft/Asobo just brought in PMDG as an official partner recently.  And they even asked Randazzo to come to the Twitch Q&A to announce it to the community. PMDG only makes study level planes.  There is no point in bringing on PMDG as an official partner if study level airliners is not the direction Microsoft/Asobo want to go.

Furthermore, XBox players are more casual simmers and are unlikely to make more expensive purchases like what the PMDG 737 will cost.  I can see XBox players purchasing low cost add ons, maybe $25 USD and below, But as the price goes up, XBox players are really unlikely to purchase add ons over the $50 USD range. I’m sure some XBox players purchased the DC6 on its release, but probably not even close to the number of PC players that purchased the DC6 when it was released for the PC,

Microsoft isn’t stupid and they know in the long run, the spenders in the MSFS marketplace will be the hard core simmers in the PC market.  Casual simmers, like the XBox players, only last for so long.  The revenue from the MSFS marketplace down the road will come from the hardcore simmers on PC.  For this reason, Microsoft (Jorg in this case) will make sure MSFS can support study level airliners in the long run.  The MSFS SDK isn’t far from supporting study level airliners for companies like PMDG.  It will get there, it just needs time.

 

 

I wish you were right but I think your wrong...

 

Firstly, you disproved your own argument by saying:

 

Quote

Furthermore, XBox players are more casual simmers and are unlikely to make more expensive purchases like what the PMDG 737 will cost.  I can see XBox players purchasing low cost add ons, maybe $25 USD and below, But as the price goes up, XBox players are really unlikely to purchase add ons over the $50 USD range. I’m sure some XBox players purchased the DC6 on its release, but probably not even close to the number of PC players that purchased the DC6 when it was released for the PC,

 

And I agree but where does Microsoft directly benefit from this over PMDG?  And Microsoft is behind ABOSO's current priority list and paying their bills.

 

It's all about the gamepass subscriptions from Microsoft not us Hardcore PC simmers, who will buy the game no matter what, and already have made the one time purchase of it...

 

Microsoft has said many times that gamepass is the future for them and I don't see how hardcore simmers and study level add-on developers' factor into this business strategy.

 

Just doing the math: Several years of gamepass subscriptions for a single user adds up to a lot more than one sale of this game on PC...!

 

 

Edited by Kilo60

Chris Camp

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 Less than 70 days ago……. Communication. Just saying.

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2 minutes ago, garlicbread11 said:

 Less than 70 days ago……. Communication. Just saying.

 

Well, maybe Randazzo has to further elaborate on what he meant by communication...

 

I'm sure he was specifically referring to the one issue with specific ABOSO developers, getting back to him, regarding the SDK, holding up their development of the NGX?

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Chris Camp

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8 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

 

If so, you can't realistically claim Christmas and SU8 suddenly got in the way

You can, as previously stated on this thread, we in Europe push for extended holiday periods, and with COVID, a lot of the 100 days could have been holidays/COVID absences and other issues, plus SU8 sounds like a massive update that Asobo could have been working on for a number of months now

 

8 hours ago, Kilo60 said:

f ABOSO had any interest at all in helping to get this add-on off the ground and It's the one last issue holding it up, I can't see why they would stall for this long!

Why would Asobo bring PMDG in as a dev partner if they had no interest in 3rd party high fidelity airliners? The underlying issue is no one bar PMDG and Asobo know what the platform issue is, all we know is it could require extensive changes to the platform 

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On 1/16/2022 at 12:32 PM, IcemanFBW said:

I can comment because I know the SDK inside and out, specific to aircraft systems and avionics development. There are simply no showstoppers from the SDK side aside from a weather API (which we have already requested from Asobo and is expected to come out this year).

 

I have no ulterior motives or anything to gain from speaking my mind here - I contribute to FBW in my free time, not for a paycheck. I just want the community to know the truth and read another perspective here. Anyone who sells a payware aircraft on the other hand, has an obligation to sell as many copies as possible to recoup investments and increase profits, so they naturally have a motive to maintain a good public image of themselves, even if it means deflecting blame onto others in some cases.

I do have a gripe with the limitations we are getting with the display drawing as they won't provide us access to the internal D3D rendering pipeline like P3D does. I wrote the hardware accelerated 2D vector and raster graphics library in use internally at Milviz and it is leaps and bounds ahead of NanoVG both in performance and ease of use. On the one hand, knowing by experience how hard of a task it is to create a 2D graphics library from scratch I have some sympathy for those like NVG's creators who undertake the endeavor, but what I have seen both with NVG and Direct2D is API designers overcomplicating the task considerably and not taking advantage of hardware capabilities to the degree that they could. There are some displays, particularly on the newer Garmin, Proline, and Honeywell big screen displays that get far too complicated for GDI and NanoVG to handle without turning performance into a slideshow. Custom shaders and draw call batching become critical to simulating these massive and complex displays to the degree we would like to do.

Edited by JB3DG
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Jonathan "FRAG" Bleeker

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If I speak for my company without permission the boss will nail me down. So unless otherwise specified...Im just a regular simmer who expresses his personal opinion

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On 1/17/2022 at 12:48 PM, eaim1973 said:

Just as an example I'm British and I had holidays I had to take or lose so from about 9th December I was off work (Rolls Royce) on holiday until the 5th of January I was back for a few days then been off work with Covid, and I'm still in isolation, Asobo could well be in a similar situation with some of it's staff.

I might well supply parts to you via IESA depending on what you do there.

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3 hours ago, JB3DG said:

I do have a gripe with the limitations we are getting with the display drawing as they won't provide us access to the internal D3D rendering pipeline like P3D does. I wrote the hardware accelerated 2D vector and raster graphics library in use internally at Milviz and it is leaps and bounds ahead of NanoVG both in performance and ease of use. On the one hand, knowing by experience how hard of a task it is to create a 2D graphics library from scratch I have some sympathy for those like NVG's creators who undertake the endeavor, but what I have seen both with NVG and Direct2D is API designers overcomplicating the task considerably and not taking advantage of hardware capabilities to the degree that they could. There are some displays, particularly on the newer Garmin, Proline, and Honeywell big screen displays that get far too complicated for GDI and NanoVG to handle without turning performance into a slideshow. Custom shaders and draw call batching become critical to simulating these massive and complex displays to the degree we would like to do.

Out of curiosity, is your internal graphics library built on top of the existing low-level graphics API provided by MSFS? I was looking into the possibility of experimenting with NanoVG in some displays (currently using HTML gauges) to improve performance, but from what you're saying it doesn't look too promising and it might be worth making our own, like you guys are doing.


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