Is MSFS Real-Time Online Traffic doomed from the start?

[Noel 4,500]

I think I read RT Online traffic is created by linking to FlightAware as its real-time data source.  If this is not correct stop here and ask a moderator to close the thread!

When I go to FlightAware.com, choose departure and arrival airports, I see how many minutes until departure.  Then a status update when the plane is taxiing to the runway.  Then the next status update when the plane has taken off.  You can look at the overhead map and zoom in to see your flight's position in the airport.  But it does not move when the plane starts taxiing.  So I wonder is this why we're not seeing takeoffs, because they do not get enough data from FlightAware.com to get from gate to runway.  But I think we did have takeoffs displaying at one point didn't we?  It's been so long I'm not sure anymore!  I really would like to have takesoffs displayed in Real-Time Online traffic because shadowing a real flight for example one selected on FlightAware.com seems like it would be a real hoot and add a little more structure.  I do miss FSCaptain--their career mode and interface is 2nd to none it's got the right flexibility, integration with GSX, FMC-like interface.  The devs there are working on it but progress has been slow thus far due to a shortage of viable local variables in the SDK when they last looked.  They are fabulous as a company and support is absolute top of the line.  I think if they can nail MSFS they are going to do very well and they deserve it!

[MrBitstFlyer 3,873]

I use AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC (website) to display traffic in MSFS.  I will load up an airport and tune in the radio to the tower frequency and just plane spot for hours.  I also use this combo when flying in the sim.  If anybody wants to try this, make sure you download the VLC audio player - traffic displayed in MSFS is around 38 seconds delayed from reality. VLC allows you do delay ATC audio to sync with the visuals.

The traffic in the sim follows exactly what the real aircraft are doing, confirmed by listening to ATC on the LiveATC website.  Since the PC12 model was released for AIG, all GA aircraft are now visible in MSFS (all are pc12s!).  Much fun to be had flying a circuit with all other traffic visible and the tower frequency transmission heard.

With this combo you will be able to see every aircraft in real world in your simulator and shadow them as far as you want.

[Bdub22 1,611]

54 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

If anybody wants to try this

Had no idea. Thanks for sharing this!! I'm definitely going to give this a go tomorrow!

[Silicus 880]

1 hour ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I use AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC

This! I do this as well and works flawless!

[abranpuko 369]

PSXT and RealTraffic is the best combination.

Software that is doing work that MSFS hasn't done in 1.5 years, and for which we have paid its customers.
MSFS has sn unjustified silence and lousy logistics on the subject of real air traffic, which have been announced as one of the qualities of the game.

[Rudiii 257]

3 minutes ago, abranpuko said:

PSXT and RealTraffic is the best combination.

Software that is doing work that MSFS hasn't done in 1.5 years, and for which we have paid its customers.
MSFS has sn unjustified silence and lousy logistics on the subject of real air traffic, which have been announced as one of the qualities of the game.

It's listed in the top wishes as Improvements Started, which was posted in the Dev Update two days ago. 

The communication from Asobo states the next few updates are focused on improvements like this.

[Noel 4,500]

48 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

It's listed in the top wishes as Improvements Started, which was posted in the Dev Update two days ago. 

The communication from Asobo states the next few updates are focused on improvements like this.

Sounds good I will wait and see if they focus on this before going into 3rd party solutions. Clearly it's all very doable...

49 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

MSFS live AI traffic is mostly useless.

I use LiveATC and indeed there isn't good correlation between MSFS RT Online traffic and LiveATC, but there is some correlation.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Noel

[Tuskin38 6,495]

When live aircraft aren't taxing, departing or on approach their movements seem to be based on their position data from FlightAware.

For example, late last year there was a NavCanada aircraft doing ILS approach tests at a local airport. The live traffic that spawned in the sim followed its movements nearly perfectly, including altitude and speed, it was just around 5-10 minutes delayed.

It would descend towards the runway, do the approach, fly along the runway and then do it's loop back around for another approach. Following the same path as the real aircraft did according to Flight Aware.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Tuskin38

[Silicus 880]

Live traffic from MSFS will never be the same as from the AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC combo, as they can not license all the liveries to be included in the sim.

[Dave_YVR 973]

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

Live traffic from MSFS will never be the same as from the AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC combo, as they can not license all the liveries to be included in the sim.

 You can also use live traffic within the sim but using the models and liveries from AIG. Sure, it's delayed by a few minutes and far from perfect, but it's better than default.

 Disregard my DA40 in the grass infield. lol I didn't have a lot of time to setup due to it being ive traffic. Here's BAW85 rolling out on 26R at YVR about 6 minutes behind when the real one had.
  It sure beats Simple Traffic's goofy variants.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Dave_YVR

[GSalden 4,657]

5 hours ago, Silicus said:

Live traffic from MSFS will never be the same as from the AIG, RealTraffic, PSXT and LiveATC combo, as they can not license all the liveries to be included in the sim.

This is what I use on my setup.
in my case 2x PSXT + 2x RT + 2x AIG.  The live aircraft are perfectly sync’d on my 2 view pc’s…

 

[marsman2020 1,310]

8 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

When live aircraft aren't taxing, departing or on approach their movements seem to be based on their position data from FlightAware.

For example, late last year there was a NavCanada aircraft doing ILS approach tests at a local airport. The live traffic that spawned in the sim followed its movements nearly perfectly, including altitude and speed, it was just around 5-10 minutes delayed.

It would descend towards the runway, do the approach, fly along the runway and then do it's loop back around for another approach. Following the same path as the real aircraft did according to Flight Aware.

When Virgin Orbit does their rocket launches you can follow the 747 all the way through the launch on a 5 min or so delay.  All the way to when the aircraft does the pull-up to drop the rocket.  I flew chase one time in a Latitude and it was super sweet.

Edited January 23, 2022 by marsman2020

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

14 hours ago, Noel said:

I think I read RT Online traffic is created by linking to FlightAware as its real-time data source.  If this is not correct stop here and ask a moderator to close the thread!

Not sure if that is actually a live connection. Access to the FlightAware Live Data API is prohibitively expensive. You are charged based on the number of requests that you send to the API (imagine - first you need to get a list of aircraft, then you need to query every single one every 15 seconds...). Back in the day, I made an FA client for my LorbyLiveTraffic, and it amounted to $10 per hour for a single user on a big airport. I'm sure that Microsoft struck a better deal, question is, if they are really using the live stream, or if they just create normal "offline" AI aircraft based on the basic flight information (callsign, type, departure, arrival - pulled maybe once ever other minute?), with a generated flight plan. If that is the case, it is no wonder that there are so few of them - that data is notoriously incomplete or plain wrong (my own experience with these things - YMMV). Edit: the reason is, that data like departure and arrival ICAO are not contained in the ADSB - dataset from the actual airplane. You have to access other data sources to find out where a specific airplane is coming from and where it is going. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lorby_SI

[Kaiii3 1,978]

26 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Not sure if that is actually a live connection. Access to the FlightAware Live Data API is prohibitively expensive. You are charged based on the number of requests that you send to the API (imagine - first you need to get a list of aircraft, then you need to query every single one every 15 seconds...). Back in the day, I made an FA client for my LorbyLiveTraffic, and it amounted to $10 per hour for a single user on a big airport. I'm sure that Microsoft struck a better deal, question is, if they are really using the live stream, or if they just create normal "offline" AI aircraft based on the basic flight information (callsign, type, departure, arrival - pulled maybe once ever other minute?), with a generated flight plan. If that is the case, it is no wonder that there are so few of them - that data is notoriously incomplete or plain wrong (my own experience with these things - YMMV). Edit: the reason is, that data like departure and arrival ICAO are not contained in the ADSB - dataset from the actual airplane. You have to access other data sources to find out where a specific airplane is coming from and where it is going. 

they use the tracking data so some degree. The routes AI takes is clearly based on ADSB data, you can see this when comapring flight paths.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

2 hours ago, Kaiii3 said:

The routes AI takes is clearly based on ADSB data, you can see this when comapring flight paths.

Maybe a flight plan that uses a broadly similar route? I did the same in LLTX, implemented a couple of flight planners that generated routes following the real world airways. 

But I admit that I have been out of this game since before MSFS was released. It seemed logical that they would use offline AI with RW data, what with ATC support, ground handling, etc. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lorby_SI