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PMDG Update: PMDG 737 now "unstuck" after talks with Asobo

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19 minutes ago, David Roch said:

As much as I can understand a certain frustration at having to wait for the 737, I find these personal attacks on Mr Randazzo very out of place.

I don't see much here that I would classify as a personal attack.   There are people commenting on his attitude and behavior, yes, but as someone who puts himself forward as a public figure, especially one who can be a bit of a firebrand, that is to be expected.   There is a difference between being personally attacked, and having to answer for your public behavior.   And, besides, no one can say that over its many years in the flight sim space, PMDG has been a company that avoided drama.

Insulting Randazzo's intelligence or his maternal lineage would be personal attacks.   Laughing over the fact that the general feeling is he seems to have made a bit of an word not allowed of himself in public and is being called out for it is not.

Edited by DeepestRed
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4 minutes ago, DeepestRed said:

I don't see much here that I would classify as a personal attack.   There are people commenting on his attitude and behavior, yes, but as someone who puts himself forward as a public figure, especially one who can be a bit of a firebrand, that is to be expected.   There is a difference between being personally attacked, and having to answer for your public behavior.   And, besides, no one can say that over its many years in the flight sim space, PMDG has been a company that avoided drama.

Insulting Randazzo's intelligence or his maternal lineage would be personal attacks.   Laughing over the fact that the general feeling is he seems to have made a bit of an word not allowed of himself in public and is being called out for it is not.

I agree.  That's one of the reasons why I think Jorg is a good person to be at the helm of MSFS and those dev Q&As are really good.  He was able to come in and say what happened.  He wasn't attacking anyone.  That was an issue that needed to be put to bed.  

We were all sitting around thinking we could be staring down the barrel of another 6 month to a year delay because the issue was on the platform side.  We also thought this was possibly having downstream effects on FENIX and anyone else.  Thankfully that wasn't the case.

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1 hour ago, David Roch said:

As much as I can understand a certain frustration at having to wait for the 737, I find these personal attacks on Mr Randazzo very out of place.

I find the posts on this topic way more gentle than Robert reply to FBW Iceman.

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9 hours ago, leprechaunlive said:

 

hmm? There are MANY 3rd party planes available for Xbox. 

Of course, but clearly I was talking about the "other developers" who are working on projects similar to PMDG:  complex WASM airliners.  How many of those are available for Xbox?

FBW and Fenix aren't trying to develop an aircraft for both platforms, right? Thus, it's fair to assume there's things they don't know about what PMDG is trying to do, and difficulties they haven't encountered - because they aren't even trying to do the same thing, right? 

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4 hours ago, MySound said:

Yeah. I’m quite sure they don’t read the manuals. 
 

 There's an irony to the idea that a Precision Manuals Development Group didn't read the SDK Manuals. 🤣

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Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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2 hours ago, bendead said:

I find the posts on this topic way more gentle than Robert reply to FBW Iceman.

Can´t agree more. THAT was a really nasty and unwarranted comment, towards somebody is who is developing something for free! I found it quite tasteless. Never bought a product from PMDG, and I have no urgency to change that (never say never but...)

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3 hours ago, bendead said:

I find the posts on this topic way more gentle than Robert reply to FBW Iceman.

I think I missed this, where can I found his reply ? just curious

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13 hours ago, JSmith2112 said:

So it seems Iceman from FBW was right about the drama.

No, he wasn't, he missed the point. PMDG never claimed complex aircraft weren't possible with the SDK. They said they were facing an issue, that was no general statement. What was said in the Q&A yesterday only confirms it was indeed their issue and not an issue with the SDK that FBW thought they needed to correct.

 

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

 There's an irony to the idea that a Precision Manuals Development Group didn't read the SDK Manuals. 🤣

How do we know they didn't read the manuals? If Asobo didn't understand the question because they thought it was clear, chances are PMDG didn't understand the manuals that Asobo wrote, no? I'm not here to defend anyone or take sides, there's just too many assumptions about stuff we can't know for my taste...

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17 minutes ago, threegreen said:

How do we know they didn't read the manuals?

We don't. It was a joke built off of what the poster I quoted had said. Sorry for the confusion.

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Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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1 hour ago, cepact said:

I think I missed this, where can I found his reply ? just curious

Somewhere here, the post is quoted here only, couldn’t find it when quickly scanning the thread, was it deleted?

 

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5 hours ago, kkbelos said:

Can´t agree more. THAT was a really nasty and unwarranted comment, towards somebody is who is developing something for free! I found it quite tasteless. Never bought a product from PMDG, and I have no urgency to change that (never say never but...)

Responding to arrogance with arrogance (which Randazzo did) is rarely productive, but I'm not sure it's fair to pretend this was one-sided.

The FBW dev injected his opinion (as fact) on another dev's work, claiming that he knew everything about what PMDG was trying to do, and since FBW didn't have the same problem, it must not exist. 

And yet, FBW is demonstrably NOT trying to do the same thing PMDG is (bring a complex WASM/C++ airliner to both PC and Xbox).  Therefore the basic premise of the FBW dev's statement - that he understands everything PMDG is doing and no problem actually exists - is false.

I'm not sure the response was any more arrogant than the original comment; I found them both pretty cringeworthy.

Also, discussion is fun but in the end I really don't care about the personality of either of these people. I'll never be sitting down to have a beer with either of them. I just want my toys.   😁

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Andrew Crowley

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2 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Responding to arrogance with arrogance (which Randazzo did) is rarely productive, but I'm not sure it's fair to pretend this was one-sided.

The FBW dev injected his opinion (as fact) on another dev's work, claiming that he knew everything about what PMDG was trying to do, and since FBW didn't have the same problem, it must not exist. 

And yet, FBW is demonstrably NOT trying to do the same thing PMDG is (bring a complex WASM/C++ airliner to both PC and Xbox).  Therefore the basic premise of the FBW dev's statement - that he understands everything PMDG is doing and no problem actually exists - is false.

I'm not sure the response was any more arrogant than the original comment; I found them both pretty cringeworthy.

Also, discussion is fun but in the end I really don't care about the personality of either of these people. I'll never be sitting down to have a beer with either of them. I just want my toys.   😁

 

  1. I never claimed I knew everything PMDG was trying to do.
  2. I did not state the problem did not exist - I simply said I was certain that an SDK limitation was not at fault (which is true, as confirmed in the Q&A stream).
  3. FBW is developing a complex airliner that makes use of WASM and C++ (you can take a look yourself), and had thoroughly investigated the possibility of bringing the aircraft to XBOX but realized it would not work, mainly due to licensing and workload concerns.

 

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings - have a wonderful day!

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, IcemanFBW said:

 

  1. I never claimed I knew everything PMDG was trying to do.
  2. I did not state the problem did not exist - I simply said I was certain that an SDK limitation was not at fault (which is true, as confirmed in the Q&A stream).
  3. FBW is developing a complex airliner that makes use of WASM and C++ (you can take a look yourself), and had thoroughly investigated the possibility of bringing the aircraft to XBOX but realized it would not work, mainly due to licensing and workload concerns.

 

I hope this clears up any misunderstandings - have a wonderful day!

I want to thank IcemanFBW for giving his two cents about the PMDG situation because we learned more about the capabilities of the MSFS SDK.

Without expert input from people like IcemanFBW, we end up getting bad interpretations incorrect assessments by the community, who don't know the MSFS SDK inside and out.  Back in the fall of 2020, a lot of people came away with the misunderstanding that the MSFS SDK was very limited and complex airliners and complex systems were not possible with the MSFS SDK.

It was up to people like IcemanFBW, other devs from the FBW team, and other devs from the Working Title team that then wrote posts saying a lot could be done with the MSFS SDK, especially if the 3rd party dev was willing to use more HTML & Javascript, and that there was a community wide misunderstanding about the capabilities of the MSFS SDK.  Without IcemanFBW, other devs from the FBW team, and other devs from the Working Title team correcting this misinformation, we would still misunderstand the capabilities of the MSFS SDK today.

I for one, hope the developers from FBW and Working Title continue to post their comments, and give their analysis, so that we get more expert opinion and ultimately, better information about MSFS and upcoming MSFS add-ons.  

Edited by abrams_tank
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38 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I for one, hope the developers from FBW and Working Title continue to post their comments, and give their analysis, so that we get more expert opinion and ultimately, better information about MSFS and upcoming MSFS add-ons.  

well said, and don't forget that some highly experienced developers that brag about there 25+ years of experience (might) be stuck in old school developments methods and having (UN-intended) resistance to change and modernization in coding.

Edited by penta_a
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Left or right : Asobo needs to enhance the SDK/Simconnect to more than what it is now to give good support for complex aircraft.

it this moment when using a WASM file It can’t be to complex as it leads to overload -> framerate drop over time.

So it’s all up to Asobo…..

 

 


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