MILVIZ leaves P3D enthusiast market

[Dominique_K 10,133]

20 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

Is cost good enough?

I paid about 55 EUR for the DC-6 as I recall.  

[Ikarus280 93]

I bought the DC-6 and was only able to fly it for 3 days before sim update 5 broke it... With all the tweaking of settings after that and reading posts from other users, I decided this sim is not stable enough. Best to wait 1-2 years to see what happens.

Hopefully third parties will be able to tweak the sim to become similar to P3D one day if the xbox is dropped. 

[udidwht 133]

"They will still develop for the P3D commercial/ military market but these products will not be available to the enthusiast, but may in time get ported to MSFS"

 

Never did buy from a developer..."It's too difficult to develop for 2 or more sims at 1 time"

Something special (outside of $) with the military/commercial variants of P3D vs the version some run?

Edited February 2, 2022 by udidwht

[Nuno Pinto 1,394]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:06 PM, Christopher Low said:

(...) when a major game server is switched off

Just wait for it. I keep all my FSX and P3D purchases in storage, you just never know...

[Dominique_K 10,133]

9 hours ago, Ikarus280 said:

I bought the DC-6 and was only able to fly it for 3 days before sim update 5 broke it... With all the tweaking of settings after that and reading posts from other users, I decided this sim is not stable enough. Best to wait 1-2 years to see what happens.

Hopefully third parties will be able to tweak the sim to become similar to P3D one day if the xbox is dropped. 

To say that SU5 broke the 6 is to put it mildly an exaggeration. Cf. The PMDG forums at the said date. PMDG by the way moved swiftly to cure the minor glitches. 

Again, one is legitimate to prefer P3D over MSFS, there are pro and con I suppose, but there is no need to intoxicate one’s self and others with fantasies.

 

[Whenmaker 23]

So that's what you do?

Wait and see is the cure and no, i didn't prefer one over the other. I just wait and see.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

41 minutes ago, Whenmaker said:

So that's what you do?

Wait and see is the cure and no, i didn't prefer one over the other. I just wait and see.

There is no need for a cure because it is not an illness 😉.  

[Ikarus280 93]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:43 AM, Dominique_K said:

To say that SU5 broke the 6 is to put it mildly an exaggeration. Cf. The PMDG forums at the said date. PMDG by the way moved swiftly to cure the minor glitches. 

Again, one is legitimate to prefer P3D over MSFS, there are pro and con I suppose, but there is no need to intoxicate one’s self and others with fantasies.

 

Unfortunately for me, it did break. I spent a long time tweaking and customizing MSFS and after sim update 5 was out, the graphics quality was no longer the same, i had bugs on the aircraft, and also frequent CTDs. These issues are known and I wasn't alone at the time. 

Sure PMDG released an update later on, MSFS did too. But not all of us have enough patience to deal with game breaking bugs every time an update is released when you just want to fly in the limited time you have coming home after work. The sim MSFS is not yet mature enough to operate tubeliners like we do in P3D, but might (and I hope it will) one day. Therefore, I see no reason for your "intoxicity" comment. 

P3D has some very annoying limitations too but at least for now it is possible to have a stable flight, and the addons are more complex. Let's see when PMDG releases their 737 and fenix their A320, then the real comparison can begin. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ikarus280

[coastaldriver 915]

On 2/2/2022 at 2:18 PM, udidwht said:

"They will still develop for the P3D commercial/ military market but these products will not be available to the enthusiast, but may in time get ported to MSFS"

 

Never did buy from a developer..."It's too difficult to develop for 2 or more sims at 1 time"

Something special (outside of $) with the military/commercial variants of P3D vs the version some run?

Correct! Very special - and much easier to do - most and nearly all military users have a very limited range of aeroplanes they use. The manufacturers of these aeroplanes also provide the full motion simulators (the software to drive one is not that complex nor does it need to be that sophisticated or high end hardware wise). The desktop P3D would be driving systems familiarity and general procedural training, P3D then is linked to a partial motion simulator or mockup cockpit or a full motion sim (depends could be both or one or the other). The sim systems can communicate with the aeroplanes systems if required. So a scenario (note that term used by P3D all the time) is planned in detail, can be practised or worked through via the desktop and then uploaded into a real aeroplane (vehicle) and done for real. There might be some addon developers with the skills for that but by and large the people who make the aeroplane also have a big hand in doing the sim part. Now what else is it that LM make beside P3D? I can think of only two developers who would make the grade in that market and I have a hunch they already have an oar in the water there as subcontractors. 

[Matchstick 1,878]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:52 AM, Dominique_K said:

 They are in no way inferior to what P3D aircraft offer that I can see. 

I'm sorry but I do have to disagree with you here- the systems modelling on something like the KAP140 in the MSFS Porter is simply poor compared to the modelling of the same instrument in Milviz's P3D aircraft (or the T310R in XP).

Maybe that will change in the phase 2 release but right now I don't think we have any firm information on that.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Matchstick

[Multisim 116]

On 1/25/2022 at 5:06 PM, Christopher Low said:

Maybe there will be a disturbance in the Force, and millions of voices will cry out in horror and disbelief when a major game server is switched off

For the love of... please stop spreading this myth/lie. There is already a 3rd party open source alternative for the scenery streaming. One would should think that this would have stopped this myth. But no, the big guys still sit here and laugh about this instead of listening to the facts.

In the meantime, try pulling the plug of your P3D installation and see how well it works with your Vatsim, realtime weather, realtime AI, Orbx central, and 50 different license activation servers that are required on a regular basis for all the various not-so-well-written addons.

In MSFS, pulling the plug is called offline mode. Streamed scenery already downloaded previously, like it is in 99% of the cases for most users as they tend to visit the same places multiple times, is not affected. Affected areas are downgraded to offline mode (which is what P3D uses all the time), not "your MSFS installation will be totally eliminated and useless" mode. Other addons depending on realtime data is just as internet-dependant as any other sim or software.

There are many valid constructive arguments against MSFS. The "MSFS will be dead when a serer is switched off" argument is not one of them. As long as you repeat the lies, it's impossible to have any constructive discussions about the different sims. All that is left is a bad attitude with myths and lies and the old "let the kids play their little xbox game and let us big guys fly the heavies".

I think that this bad attitude drives more people away from P3D and the P3D forums than MSFS does. It should be appearent to anyone that it's completely impossible to have any sort of constructive discussion here these days. No matter the topic, it always ends with the same MSFS bashing and bad attitude. But at least it seems to make you guys feel good and happy.

 

[Christopher Low 5,331]

Your spectacular overreaction to my comment has been noted.

[abrams_tank 7,387]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:06 AM, Christopher Low said:

Maybe there will be a disturbance in the Force, and millions of voices will cry out in horror and disbelief when a major game server is switched off

If you're referring to the costs of streaming the satellite & photogrammetry data, it's dirt cheap for Microsoft.  This has been analyzed before.  Here is a reply from neilhewitt, a P3D user, in this P3D forum about it:

Quote

@abrams_tank has it right. Bandwidth is super cheap right now. There is a boatload of unused fibre out there. Even with 2 million users all hitting the CDN for MSFS at the same time with 100Mbps+ connections, I doubt it's more than a blip on the Azure traffic radar. Server hardware is a fairly small % of the cost of building and maintaining the cloud, too (networking gear is much more expensive); the scale that Azure and AWS (and even GCP) work at is so mind-bogglingly big that having even a few thousand VMs dedicated to running the MSFS back-end is not a top-10 workload for Azure. Nowhere near. If you or I were doing it it would cost a few million a year, but for Microsoft it's much much less than that. 

Also, the one key difference between MSFS and FSX is the MSFS marketplace.  Microsoft is continually getting revenue from the MSFS marketplace purchases, especially with so many new products being released every week in the MSFS marketplace.  Given that it's dirt cheap to run the bandwidth for MSFS, and you factor in the revenue MSFS gets from the MSFS marketplace, I doubt Microsoft turning off the satellite & photogrammetry streaming will happen anytime soon.

One more thing.  Even if Microsoft does shut it off, there is also a Google streaming mod for MSFS. This Google mod has been running for almost 6 months already, and Google still hasn't shut it down.  You would think that Google would shut it down if it's eating a lot of their bandwidth and costing them a lot of money, especially since it has been almost 6 months already.  But  just like Microsoft, it's not eating much of Google's overall bandwidth and using the same phrase by neilhewitt, it's also barely a "blip" on Google's traffic radar.

Edited February 4, 2022 by abrams_tank

[micstatic 4,299]

7 hours ago, Multisim said:

For the love of... please stop spreading this myth/lie. There is already a 3rd party open source alternative for the scenery streaming. One would should think that this would have stopped this myth. But no, the big guys still sit here and laugh about this instead of listening to the facts.

In the meantime, try pulling the plug of your P3D installation and see how well it works with your Vatsim, realtime weather, realtime AI, Orbx central, and 50 different license activation servers that are required on a regular basis for all the various not-so-well-written addons.

 

 

This point is weird though.  

Vatsim: If the plug was pulled it would affect all flight sims.  Not just p3d.  Even if it did happen we would likely see a mass migration to POSCOM/IVAO.  

Realtime Weather: P3D already has atleast 3 live weather solutions.  

Realtime AI: AIG is downloaded on my machine.  I don't need an internet connection to use it.  

Orbx Central: While it is without question a very nice and useful program it is also not required.  I could simply continue using Lorby Addon Manager.  All my scenery is installed via add on xml library. 

Activation Servers:  All these are already installed via library add on xml.  So I don't really have to activate much anymore.  This point would also effect all sims since same payware providers provide solutions for all sims.  

[Dominique_K 10,133]

It is clear and not subject to any doubt : Microsoft commitment to MSFS is as firm as it has been for the Kinect. You can also look forward to its adaptation to Hololens 3.