Is everyone a software pirate?

[virtuali 4,421]

>As I said in a previous post, I have used hacked versions>of FS addons, but not to keep. I only have used them to try>the products out because they were from companies that would>NOT honor a refund.Them you should probably like the system I've designed for Cloud9 (but it will used by other FS developers in the future, because it's open to licensing), because, instead of having to Buy first, and then getting a refound, eventually, it makes possible FULLY FUNCTIONAL Trial versions, both for sceneries and airplanes, without any missing features, it's the real product, but it only runs for some minutes at a time.This method has the following advantages:- You can test it on your machine at your pace. There's no expiration date, you can launch it an unlimited number of times, and having an unlimited number of xx-minutes "bites" of the product. So, if you didn't like it today, maybe you'll like it later (perhaps with a new PC), and it's expecially suited to FS, when users like to tweak settings, launch FS, try, tweak settings, laungh FS, try again, etc.- You can download the installer freely, there are no expiring links, no "download insurances" to pay, you'll still be able to download it again the next year, because the installer it's the demo and the demo is unlockable from inside FS without having to download other things.- You only buy from inside FS when the product is installed and fully running already as a Demo. If the product, for any reason, doesn't run because some strange compatibility problem with your machine, you will not be able to Buy it.- You can download it in total privacy. The Demo download it's 100% anonymous, there's no registration required. If you didn't like it, you don't have to ask for a refound, you don't have to explain anything. Nobody will even *know* you didn't like it. I think it's much better to be able not to buy in the first place (thanks to the 100% fully functional Demo), than having to register, pay, and then ask for a refound.- You don't risk losing your serial, activation email or risking paying and not receiving the goods because your email for any reason is not reachable from overseas because some obscure firewall or email washer in between blocked the seller's address. If your Internet connection is good enough to make the CC transaction, it will be able to activate the product automatically in the same instant without having to type serials, codes, etc.- You don't risk losing your keys during a change of the PC. Another copy of all your orders it's stored on the redundant array of Esellerate servers, so even if you didn't make a backup, you can retrieve your orders history from the Esellerate website.And, the system doesn't "phone home". The connnection to the internet is needed only when doing the original purchase, then the activation is chached locally in the registry. Only if reinstalling Windows a new connection is needed to check the activation, but otherwise the software will never connect during normal use.regards,Umberto Colapicchioni/VIRTUALI

[Guest SageWisdom]

>Charles,>> At least spell your home state correctly. TennesseeMy bad. Never claimed to be a good typist.>The F1 wrapper has been cracked for a long time now. >Their system is the best though, but not because of their>wrapper. Their system is the best because they offer a>no-questions-asked money-back guarantee ( 30 days I think?). The guarantee is something I like to, but its not relevant to the conversation really. It is the copyright protection we are discussing here, and if the F1 wrapper, and other "user friendly" systems like it are so easy to crack, I think its easy to see why protections systems have to get tougher and tougher.Sure its probably not possible to create something "crack proof". But I dont blame software sellers for not just giving the stuff away in unprotected wrappers.

[Guest SageWisdom]

>>Its easy for all of us to make speaches about "rights" and>so>>forth. But it is stealing plain and simple and it does>damage>>to real people.>>Repeat it as often as you might, it will still be false.>>Stepping up to someone and smashing his teeth in - that's>doing damage.>Taking away a kid's lunch money - that's stealing.>Not buying a chair you're offering in a garage sale, instead>taking a knife and some wood and carving the exact same chair>that you're offering by oneself - you'd call that stealing?I think it is this that does not bear scrutiny. Not buying the chair at the garage sale is not stealing. But stealing the chair at the garage sale is. Thats what we are talking about here.Or are you trying to say that pirating software, or taking anything offered for sale without first paying for it, is not stealing? I think that would be kind of hard to support.

[Guest SageWisdom]

>And, the system doesn't "phone home". The connnection to the>internet is needed only when doing the original purchase, then>the activation is chached locally in the registry. Really that's pretty much the way they all work. People who start these "phone home" rumors are the people thwarted from stealing software themselves I think. If you are talking about spyware thats a whole different matter, and has nothing to do with software protection systems.

[neil0311 366]

Piracy CAN be slowed significantly. Maybe we can't eliminate it 100%, but piracy always starts with one person buying or stealing a piece of intellectual property and passing it on to another without proper payment. If we all agree not to do that and to do the right thing, and encourage others to do the same, it can start to make a difference. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that's true. It's got to be made just as socially unacceptable as robbing a liquor store. The problem now is that kids are growing up thinking its OK to download music and software without payment, their friends "are doing it too", and parents look the other way. As parents, we must teach our children not to steal, and we have to teach our children more carefully about right and wrong. To me, preventing piracy is in the same category as securing the US borders and preventing aliens from illegally entering our sovereign country. If we never try to do it, we never will. I make my living working for a very large software company. I can tell you that IT and software professionals are probably the least likely to pirate because they know what the legal and professional costs can be. The sooner we treat downloading pirated material as what it is, pure and simple theft, the better off we'll be. There is no free lunch. That's true in all facets of life.

[Guest fruitfly]

>>we have to teach our children more carefully about right and wrong<<...of which everyone has his own idea.That IS the problem.So what does it leave us with? More severe punishment? :-)Maybe labour camps would help them appreciate the value of others' work? LOL

[Guest nem]

>I don't get how you can equate carving your own chair to>stealing software. It IS stealing, no matter what the name is.As I said: repeating it won't make it true.>Let's put it this way, suppose you walk into Game or as it is>in US EB and pick up a copy of eg 727 Professional from the>shelf, you walk out of the store without paying. That's>stealing isn't it? So why the heck is it any different if you>download a cracked version of that exact same software? At theBecause you take nothing away from the software vendor but the opportunity to sell something to me. That's not stealing, try as you might.Stealing: taking someone else's possession. As in: the person stolen from loses a physical object. There's a reason why using someone else's bank account unauthorized would be called fraud, not theft. Ask a lawyer, it's as simple as that.>end of the day if you do you ARE a THIEF and deserve whatever>comes to you if you get caught. These are people trying toI'm not debating what people deserve for (maybe) infringing copyrights. That's entirely unrelated to the point I'm making. I'm just saying they are not thieves, no matter how much copyright holders would like you to believe this.>If you steal something whether it's physical or electrical>then you can't complain when the same happens to you.Who's complaining?Regards,http://www.bremmekamp.com/img/misc/avsim.jpg

[Guest nem]

>I think it is this that does not bear scrutiny. Not buying>the chair at the garage sale is not stealing. But stealing>the chair at the garage sale is. Thats what we are talking>about here.Nope, we are talking about copying the chair.>Or are you trying to say that pirating software, or taking>anything offered for sale without first paying for it, is not>stealing? I think that would be kind of hard to support.You're thoroughly confusing things, see my answer to jboweruk.Regards,http://www.bremmekamp.com/img/misc/avsim.jpg

[virtuali 4,421]

>Nope, we are talking about copying the chair.That's why in Star Trek, they say the Replicator technology led to the change of the economy and the disappearance of money ( well, there's still money in ST, and in fact it's because Latinum can't be replicated...)However, since we don't have the replicator yet, I think that copying software can be thought AS IF was stealing (although, formally, it's not), otherwise people were the only income comes from selling non-physical stuff would be at an unfair disadvantage comparing to those producing physical things, because if everybody considered a copy to be just a "missed sale", soon there would be no real sales anymore.Many times, we heard the argument that piracy can be somewhat accepted if it's for "personal use", but then again, this means developers of entertainment software (like FS addon developers) will suffer another unfair disadvantage, because they only sell product that are MEANT to be just for "personal use". Adobe and Autodesk could still survive very well (in fact they do) selling mainly to professionals, but that luxury is surely not available to FS addon developers.Also, it's better for the so called "Western World" to realize that things covered by copyrights are probably the only ones that will be produced here in the foreseeable future, with all the rest of the physical stuff (the only things that are supposedly considered stealable ) done in the low labor cost countries of the Far East.Do we *really* want to put ourselves at such disadvantage, by not seriously pursuing software piracy ?

[MD83 1]

>I think the majority of people that post against piracy are>hypocrites, most of you have MP3s you didnt buy, software such>as photoshop or 3DS Max (altho you claim to use the free GMax)>and other software you didnt buy so it's all moot>really.....if you own any MP3s you didnt buy then you have no>right to say a word about people using addons they didnt>buy......periodhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/Dar...humbsupblag.gif

[Guest rabbitcancer]

Been reading some of your posts...and I'm curious.What exactly is it you do in the IT industry - I'd also be interested in your educational background...Perhaps we can bounce ideas of one another...Devon.

[Guest rabbitcancer]

JW...Been reading some of your posts...and I'm curious.What exactly is it you do in the IT industry - I'd also be interested in your educational background...Perhaps we can bounce ideas of one another...Devon.

[Guest R5D4]

Owning the imaterial (like the design for the chair in the above example) does not deprive another of it so it is not stealing, but, the argument goes, society must give incentives to people to create Intellectual Property in the form of Intellectual Property Rights and copyright law.I would guess that FS Addon producers have sufficient renumeration for their efforts in that they continue to do business despite most simmers using copies. Copyright infringement, if anything, keeps prices low because producers are competing with their own product priced near free*, minus human support/boxed cd/printed manuals/updates etc.*bandwidth usage,hassle and time.

[Guest SageWisdom]

>Owning the imaterial (like the design for the chair in the>above example) does not deprive another of it so it is not>stealing, Software is not imaterial. It is a marketable and tangible product. Installing it illegally is stealing, plain and simple.>I would guess that FS Addon producers have sufficient>renumeration for their efforts in that they continue to do>business despite most simmers using copies. Copyright>infringement, if anything, keeps prices low because producers>are competing with their own product priced near free*, minus>human support/boxed cd/printed manuals/updates etc.You have it exactly backwards. It forces prices up so that software vendors can stay in business with continually declining returns. People don't steal software in "rpice competition". They steal it because they can, and they have no scruples.

[Guest R5D4]

>>Software is not imaterial. It is a marketable and tangible>product. Installing it illegally is stealing, plain and>simple.I meant sofware is immaterial in the sense of being nonphysical.Again, if you follow the argument that stealing something means you are depriving someone else of it's use, then you are using the wrong (emotive) word.I will assume you mean stealing in the sense of "depriving someone of their just rewards for creating the software in the first place". Now...that's an interesting debate to have... :-)>You have it exactly backwards. It forces prices up so that>software vendors can stay in business with continually>declining returns. People don't steal software in "rpice>competition". They steal it because they can, and they have no>scruples.It is debatable that companies will not try and maximise their profits by charging as much as possible.Echoing the oldies reply, I think people infringe copyright on software simply because they do not view it as stealing. It's a valid position to take in my opinion - their scruples are very much intact!!!