Impressions on SU8 (Beta)

[Bobsk8 12,728]

7 minutes ago, turbomax said:

I don't think they have mentioned anything along those lines re. the NXi, except that a blank screen reported by some uses will get fixed in the final SU8. I have not encountered that black screen, but why would you continue to use the G1000 instead of WT's free enhanced NXi upgrade anyway?

Yeah, is the question of the day.  

[turbomax 3,285]

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

and swearing they would never install another beta again??

ever heard of people trying to give up smoking or drinking? I guess betas are simply too tempting if you read all those mostly positive reports.

[sightseer 895]

Are you guys just not aware that the NXi is going to become the default G1000 at some point? 

 

[Rudiii 257]

Are the prop effects not very noticeable or are night lighting and FPS more important than flight dynamics? As we are 8 pages into a thread, prop effects get 4 mentions two of which are about the animation.

Can't move for posts asking for better flight dynamics usually. Asobo bring them and it's like Where's Wally looking for discussion of them.

[jcomm 5,937]

9 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Hmm, didn't I read that exact same thing prior to the last beta, and then post after post from people pulling there hair out and swearing they would never install another beta again??//🤓

Bob,

I know what you mean, and that has prevented me from pushing any betas sine they started making them available, but this turn around I felt I was going to try since I really wanted to test the weather and the new prop effects before SU8 goes final.

.) I am on Win 11;

.) I have MFS Community and Official folders in a separate disk/ partition, and made a backup, just in case...

==> The update process was flawless, simple;

==> I am enjoying the additional performance, and I reverted to DX11 because I am mostly using the FBW A320 NEO and they recommend using it in DX11 for the time being due to some graphics glitches;

==> I have completed at least two long sessions, with flights in the NEO without any quirks - quite on the contrary, excellent performance and also better weather behaviour, specially n the transitions from observation to model based data.

Honestly, I think you could give it a try without fuss, but !, YMMV, specially if you're not on Win 11. I do believe Win 11 is more stable than Win 10 and haven't look back since I use it.

Give it a try !

[jcomm 5,937]

13 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

Are the prop effects not very noticeable or are night lighting and FPS more important than flight dynamics? As we are 8 pages into a thread, prop effects get 4 mentions two of which are about the animation.

Can't move for posts asking for better flight dynamics usually. Asobo bring them and it's like Where's Wally looking for discussion of them.

Rudii,

the main reason I pushed an MFS beta for the 1st time was actually due to my curiosity in testing the prop effects.

They are noticeable, although I do not have any experience as a RW pilot on any of the 3 aircraft that are now using that new model AND a C152 wouldn't be the best aircraft to test "strong" prop effects...

But on both the Caravan and the 350i, prop braking effect is there now, and so are additional dynamic effects due to propwash and torque. I have to test more but I do believe we're finally free from the FS9 / FSX standard formula used for taming out torque on roll / yaw / coupled  moment above 1.5 * VS₁ !

Edited February 14, 2022 by jcomm

[Rudiii 257]

2 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Rudii,

the main reason I pushed an MFS beta for the 1st time was actually due to my curiosity in testing the prop effects.

They are noticeable, although I do not have any experience as a RW pilot on any of the 3 aircraft that are now using that new model AND a C152 wouldn't be the best aircraft to test "strong" prop effects...

But on both the Caravan and the 350i, prop braking effect is there now, and so are additional dynamic effects due to propwash and torque. I have to test more but I do believe we're finally free from the FS9 / FSX standard formula usied for clearing out torque above 1.5 * VS₁ !

Excellent stuff. It sounds like it has a lot of potential. Looking forward to seeing certain third party aircraft take advantage of it but may try the Caravan myself in the coming days.

[jcomm 5,937]

21 minutes ago, Rudiii said:

Excellent stuff. It sounds like it has a lot of potential. Looking forward to seeing certain third party aircraft take advantage of it but may try the Caravan myself in the coming days.

Yep 🙂

OFC, a real world Caravan pilot in it's full mental sanity would instantly firewall or retard the throttle ! This kind of stuff we do in the sim is not realistic at fall or such a kind of aircraft / engine...

Yet, I did some tests near stall speed and then above the former 1.5 * VS₁ used in FSX and FS9 to clear out prop torque effects from the FM, and I do see the effect of cycling power, as well as I did see the effect of prop braking. They're not that "big", but they're surely there.

Edited February 14, 2022 by jcomm

[markk70 26]

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Yet, I did some tests near stall speed and then above the former 1.5 * VS₁ used in FSX and FS9 to clear out prop torque effects from the FM, and I do see the effect of cycling power, as well as I did see the effect of prop braking. They're not that "big", but they're surely there.

And what about asymmetric prop loading?

I tried some slow speed high power take offs in the caravan, and once airborne no rudder input is required.

 

[jcomm 5,937]

4 hours ago, markk70 said:

And what about asymmetric prop loading?

I tried some slow speed high power take offs in the caravan, and once airborne no rudder input is required.

 

Well,

p-factor is not the major effect once you are flying, unless you get into really high AoA, which is not necessarily the case on a normal climb-out in any aircraft, using V_y or V_x so, I would surelly associate the yawing moment to the asymmetric propwash hitting the tail and some torque effect ( roll-induced yaw moment ).

I do not have rw data for a Caravan, so, not easy to evaluate if what is experienced in the default model in MFS is or not acceptable. Also, I confess I didn't put much time into it - I have to ! - because I decided to play around with the FBW A320 NEO 🙂

Will try it during this week and see if I get a better feel of the prop effects.

Will look forward for these effects to be ported to the aerobatic aircraft and the P51 in the MFS fleet.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by jcomm

[Bobsk8 12,728]

8 hours ago, sightseer said:

Are you guys just not aware that the NXi is going to become the default G1000 at some point? 

 

Everyone is aware of that, what is your point?

[markk70 26]

13 hours ago, jcomm said:

Well,

p-factor is not the major effect once you are flying, unless you get into really high AoA, which is not necessarily the case on a normal climb-out in any aircraft, using V_y or V_x so, I would surelly associate the yawing moment to the asymmetric propwash hitting the tail and some torque effect ( roll-induced yaw moment ).

I do not have rw data for a Caravan, so, not easy to evaluate if what is experienced in the default model in MFS is or not acceptable. Also, I confess I didn't put much time into it - I have to ! - because I decided to play around with the FBW A320 NEO 🙂

Will try it during this week and see if I get a better feel of the prop effects.

Will look forward for these effects to be ported to the aerobatic aircraft and the P51 in the MFS fleet.

Thanks for the explanation.

On the MS SU8 beta forums there's also a discussion (about the C152 in this case) of the the lack of yaw moments in the new prop physics.

Maybe it is a work in progress, and it will be added later?  Perhaps the upcoming feature discovery video about aerodynamics will shed some light on this.

 

[jcomm 5,937]

I tested a bit more last night...

.) The feathering "physics" need tunning... I feathered the prop on a stopped engine in the 350i and while it does that tricky / interesting move as you roll the aircraft, it fails to react properly to any sidesilp angle ... In a sideslip the blades should start rotating because they now present a sufficient AoA to the relative airflow...

.) At least in the Caravan and the 350i, I would expect a lot more of yaw due to propwash at the speeds / AoAs I tried, full power / full RPM.

I don't think the prop effects in the C152 are easy to "evaluate" because the aircraft was actually designed as a rather benign one, for trainning, and hasn't got a powerful engine in the front... 🙂

IRL and in aircraft like the Robin DR400 and the Rallye Commodore I did experience, as a fwd seating pax, a quite noticeable yawing moment due to prop effects.

As you say, it's probably WIP, and I look fwd into future developments... Also would love to see the new prop physics enabled on my Flying Iron Spiftire or in the Reno props ...

Edited February 15, 2022 by jcomm

[jcomm 5,937]

EDIT: @abrams_tank in the post bellow has pointed out that indeed some of the features discussed in the last Q&A refer to features coming with SU9 only, so, we really have to wait.

After a few more tests I am tempted to say what we have now isn't exactly the same that was shown on the last Q&A session, where Sebastien talked about the advances in the prop model.

Using Dev mode I can't see the same stramlines and propwash that were displayed and the propwash effects still feel a bit far from what I would expect.

I believe since this is not SU8 Release, we might get the effects as a whole when it goes final. Hope so !

Edited February 15, 2022 by jcomm

[abrams_tank 7,418]

24 minutes ago, jcomm said:

After a few more tests I am tempted to say what we have now isn't exactly the same that was shown on the last Q&A session, where Sebastien talked about the advances in the prop model.

Using Dev mode I can't see the same stramlines and propwash that were displayed and the propwash effects still feel a bit far from what I would expect.

I believe since this is not SU8 Release, we might get the effects as a whole when it goes final. Hope so !

From my understanding, not all the CFD changes will come in SU8.  I believe the full set of CFD changes shown in the last Twitch Q&A will come in SU9.  I'm not sure if this is related to the air flow lines you are seeing in Dev mode, but it could be.  You should check in the official beta forum for SU8 with a screenshot of the air flow lines you are seeing, and confirm whether this is intended for SU8, and whether the air flow lines will look different when all the CFD changes come in SU9.