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sivart2000

TFDI 717

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Is anyone with a 8GB (RTX2080) card running this successfully without nerfing their settings or making some ridiculous mod like running without real light or trueglass? I immediately run out of VRAM in a scenario in which I have 2GB to spare even with FSlabs. I super miss this bird and haven't quite got to the point that I'm going to sell a kidney for a 3090 to run it.

 

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I haven't flown it in a while but if I recall correctly, there are some replacement VC textures in the download section on their forum. Those improved VRAM consumption for me. I am not using RealLight or TrueGlass, though. For me the 717 is one of the best performers in terms of frame rates, but horrible on VRAM... especially in places where it is flown most these days (Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson).

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I have to run with the Legacy Renderer included in the Panels folder of the aircraft. That improves VRAM consumption. Can sometimes still crash, but for the most part it makes it usable. HORRIBLY optimized aircraft. 

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10 minutes ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

HORRIBLY optimized aircraft. 

And what will the MD11 bring forth?

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1 hour ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

I have to run with the Legacy Renderer included in the Panels folder of the aircraft. That improves VRAM consumption. Can sometimes still crash, but for the most part it makes it usable. HORRIBLY optimized aircraft. 

Cool. I'll give this a shot. Wasn't aware that file existed.

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2 hours ago, Adrian123 said:

And what will the MD11 bring forth?

We won’t know until we see it. But I suspect we will not have this issue since totally new generation. 


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1 hour ago, micstatic said:

We won’t know until we see it. But I suspect we will not have this issue since totally new generation. 

Yeah, I am hoping the MD-11 will be better optimized. Though, I believe it comes out for MSFS and P3D v5 at the same time, in which case I will be buying the MSFS version. MilViz was also notorious for eating VRAM in its KIngAir 350 - though it doesn't have any of the VRAM issues with its MSFS aircraft - although there is nothing as close to the complexity as the 350 is. And in the Milviz 350, the solution was the same - you use the files in the Legacy Render folder to overwrite the default ones, which I BELIEVE disables TrueGlass etc... not sure. I think it MAY be that whatever uses those TFDI libraries like TrueGlass may be suffering from major performance impact. PMDG's Rainmaker, for example doesn't produce ANYWHERE near the same performance penalty and it's actually some of the smoothest, least VRAM hungry high fidelity aircraft in P3D! Not sure why TFDI doesn't work as nicely. FSLabs is pretty decent too. 

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2 hours ago, JRMurray said:

Directions on how to fix this issue can be found in the TFDI Knowledgebase here: https://support.tfdidesign.com/support/solutions/articles/62000211537-dxgi-device-removed-or-dxgi-device-hung-errors-on-p3dv5

Doesn't really "fix" the issue, it just neuters the software taking away some of its coolest features, so it is usable. Kinda like curing excessive fuel usage in your car by taking out the air conditioner. Still a car but not as much fun to drive.

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41 minutes ago, sivart2000 said:

it just neuters the software taking away some of its coolest features

I've only been able to use the 717 with this workaround, so I haven't experienced otherwise. What features does it take away?


Joel Murray @ CYVR (actually, somewhere about halfway between CYNJ and CZBB) 

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4 hours ago, JRMurray said:

I've only been able to use the 717 with this workaround, so I haven't experienced otherwise. What features does it take away?

The rain effects etc... 

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2 hours ago, BostonJeremy77 said:

The rain effects

Sorry, but ... no. The legacy renderer has rain effects. I've just started P3D and ASP3D. It's raining like crazy right now here at CYVR (we're experiencing another atmospheric river) and my 717 has rain effects and window fogging.

What other effects might I be missing out on? I ask only because I'm curious: as I mentioned, I was never able to use the 717 without the legacy renderer.

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Joel Murray @ CYVR (actually, somewhere about halfway between CYNJ and CZBB) 

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On 2/28/2022 at 12:57 AM, JRMurray said:

Sorry, but ... no. The legacy renderer has rain effects. I've just started P3D and ASP3D. It's raining like crazy right now here at CYVR (we're experiencing another atmospheric river) and my 717 has rain effects and window fogging.

What other effects might I be missing out on? I ask only because I'm curious: as I mentioned, I was never able to use the 717 without the legacy renderer.

I don't know. To be honest, I haven't flown the 717 very much. It used to have really ugly lights on the ground (which I think have been fixed since, at least I haven't noticed them when I flew recently) 

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LegacyRender reduces the amount of colors used from 32 bits to 16 bit. Just imagine that Amiga colors is used with the displays. It also changes the display rendering from GDI+ to the older FSX style rendering. This reduces the usage of VRAM and the visual quality of the colors.

Older versions of TrueGlass was disabled because when v5 was pushed, DX12 was used instead of DX11. At the time TrueGlass was a DX11 product to maintain compatibility with V4 and v5, however the interoperability code for DX11 and DX12 from Microsoft was notoriously inefficient, so we had to rewrite the entire rendering technique for DX12. Now, LegacyRender does not disable TrueGlass as it is built for DX12. Other rain maker products use pre-baked/animated raindroplets, TrueGlass uses custom shaders that's generated by the GPU to merge and animate them sliding off the windscreen. Of course at the time, VRAM wasn't an issue in V4 so although it may seem "overkill" nowadays, it was fine back then. We have to change the entire backend system of TrueGlass to be around the same as other products and essentially strip the shader component of TrueGlass.

The baked RealLight textures were made in 2016, for FSX at 1024 resolution. Unfortunately, because they were pre-baked shadows and AO, if we want to increase the resolution (and change the color space for P3Dv5) we need to re-render all textures, as well as change things at the shader level so the colors of the textures are not clashing.

I myself posted 4K upscaled versions of the RealLight textures on the TFDi forums, this will greatly improve resolution however certain areas may look splodgy as we haven't done any shader modifications.

Edited by arwasairl
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Aaron Kim

MOS 8502 @ 2Mhz, 512 KB 1750 Ram Expansion Unit, VIC-II E (40 columns mode), SID 6581 3-voice sound chip. 

그래요!! 

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1 hour ago, arwasairl said:

LegacyRender reduces the amount of colors used from 32 bits to 16 bit [plus a detailed explanation]

Thank you, Aaron, for the detailed explanation. I appreciate it. I'm pretty happy with running the 717 with the legacy renderer, but it's really great to know what's missing.


Joel Murray @ CYVR (actually, somewhere about halfway between CYNJ and CZBB) 

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