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FlyTampa CYYZ vs RegDesign CYYZ

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On 3/2/2022 at 12:55 PM, regis9 said:

Hopefully FT can fix up the ADE…they had a really good selection of them based on runway configs in the P3D version.  Maybe detailed ADE work was a victim of trying to get this to market ASAP?

Considering FT usually provide accurate ADE files this is for sure surprising, in a negative sense.

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I'm choosing the FT scenery for now but may change my mind in the future.


Bill McIntyre

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55 minutes ago, Bigmack said:

I'm choosing the FT scenery for now but may change my mind in the future.

I bought REG's version on release and will wait and see if what they do to improve performance.

If not, I can always get their Toronto when it goes on sale. Either way, I win!

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BTW: it was confirmed in the FT forums that v1.1 will get a proper ADE with gate assignements. Wonder why this did not make it into v1.0...

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On 3/2/2022 at 1:53 AM, pmplayer said:

As an eyecandy i like RegDesign a bit more but the FPS aspect is more important to me so i go for FT.

I urgently need a 12 gig graphics card..

cheers 😉

I have a 3080ti with 12g and it’s 100%maxed out with the Reg YYZ and my FPS is pretty bad. 


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"95% is half the truth, but most of it is lies, but if you read half of what is written, you'll be okay." __ Honey Boo Boo's Mom

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3 hours ago, AnkH said:

BTW: it was confirmed in the FT forums that v1.1 will get a proper ADE with gate assignements. Wonder why this did not make it into v1.0...

Great to hear, I’ll stick with my previous guess that it was about getting the product to market quickly given the RegDesigns release.  

Either way though, with a proper ADE in place I’ll be a very happy camper with the FT version.


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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2022 at 5:29 AM, AnkH said:

BTW: it was confirmed in the FT forums that v1.1 will get a proper ADE with gate assignements. Wonder why this did not make it into v1.0...

Probably rushed it out to meet REG’s CYYZ release. Like, how odd they announced it would be released the day after Reg released theirs, saying it would be out in the next 2-3 days, but then bam, released like 12 hours later.

 

Edited by Tuskin38
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1 hour ago, Tuskin38 said:

Probably rushed it out to meet REG’s CYYZ release. Like, how odd they announced it would be released the day after Reg released theirs, saying it would be out in the next 2-3 days, but then bam, released like 12 hours later.

 

And I'm very happy they did. I might have wasted $20 on RegDesign's very rushed, highly unoptimized and therfore, barely usable release. FT is a longstanding reliable developer who I have every confidence will address some of these minor issues. RegDesign OTOH may never be able to get decent performance out of their offering.

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Posted (edited)

I sometimes wonder where all the old good habits went. Not long ago, when a new major airport came out, the first question on forums were "how's the fps ?", "is it flyable ?" and even if there were two airports from different developers, there might still be users deciding to use the better performing version, even if it might not be as detailed.

Even reviewers were very critical about performances once, but now it seems the only thing that everybody cares in MSFS is how sharp textures are, how much detail (even from things you won't ever be able to see from the cockpit) is there like how many dustbins you have on an airport, but also how much detailed each dustbin really is.

Someone posted before in this thread a screenshot with the MSFS performance counter, showing 12GB of VRAM taken. 12GB of VRAM, really ? Just because MSFS seems to be solid enough (but wait until DX12 will be standard...) to handle such unreasonable load with relative ease, that shouldn't be a free ticket to make something that is trying to take more memory than the vast majority of hardware out there. What will happen when, for example, complex airplanes or full set of AI with hundreds of real world liveries will enter in the picture ?

I really don't care if someone is boasting 2500 hand-placed objects: 12GB of VRAM usage, when the simulator is normally using 5-6 on any given LARGE airport, it's just a sign of a lack of understanding how optimization work, and the many ways an airport can be optimized, which is particularly glaring because, while in FSX/P3D there were absolutely NO diagnostic tools or ways to know for sure how many resources you have and *what* is using them, with MSFS, especially since the latest 2-3 sim/SDK updates, there are several ways to perfectly profile each object and know when "too much is too much", which is basically mandatory if you want to be sure you can land even on the cheapest Xbox without crashing.

And yes, while the current meme is that MSFS has been "dumbed down" for the Xbox, what really happened is the availability on the Xbox platform is forcing developers to be MORE careful with optimization and more serious about it. Since you just can't say to an Xbox user "is the airport crashing ? sorry, we suggest to use a better video card", what have been mostly "amateurish" developers so far, when they get in contact with the console world, they really need to step up their game and start using what the rest of the gaming industry is doing for years, taking the time to do optimization seriously.

Of course, if you need to rush the airport, because you know another developer is doing the same airport, won't help so, while we don't know who rushed what, I'm fairly sure that, something that is doubling the VRAM requirement of the simulator can be optimized, a lot.

I was always been performance obsessed, because I always said that, everybody can do a nice small airport, most can do a nice large airport ( it just take time ), or a sparse large airport that performs well but, very few can do a *large* airport which is *both* nice and works well.  FlyTampa surely seems to be one of the few that can do that, we try our best to reach that goal too but, since I'm a performance-fps "Taliban", when there's a choice, I always put fps first, even if it means something might not look as good as it could, especially from distance.

So, don't be put off by pop-up, don't hate LODs, they are your friend, and they show the developer CARED, because it takes *extra* time to ADD LODs and, if you want to do it properly, it can take A LOT of extra time so, what you might see as a progressive image deterioration, is a sign the developer has worked extra to keep performance high. And not JUST performances, it's mainly stability, because if you are taking 12GB of VRAM without taking into account what *else* the user might have installed, like a complex airplane, or something that hasn't even been released yet, you are playing with fire, and the sim will be at more risk of crashing.

So please, let's all try to pay more attention to technical aspects of a product, do care more about optimization, fps, memory, and don't buy something JUST because "it looks nice". Looking nice it's fairly easy considering how good the visual engine in MSFS is, but that's just the first step. The difficult one, optimization, is what comes next. And I know for sure graphic modelers and artists hate doing LODs, because it's not very creative work, they just want to put the product out of the door as soon as possible.

But maybe I'm all wrong, and the ones releasing first always win. 

Edited by virtuali
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1 hour ago, odourboy said:

And I'm very happy they did. I might have wasted $20 on RegDesign's very rushed, highly unoptimized and therfore, barely usable release. FT is a longstanding reliable developer who I have every confidence will address some of these minor issues. RegDesign OTOH may never be able to get decent performance out of their offering.

Well we shall see...unfortunately I didn't wait for FT and bought the Reg. Looks pretty good but the performance is NOT good. I was crushed when the very next day FT released...GRRRRR!


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2 hours ago, somiller said:

Well we shall see...unfortunately I didn't wait for FT and bought the Reg. Looks pretty good but the performance is NOT good. I was crushed when the very next day FT released...GRRRRR!

I did not wait either because when REG designed release there was no timeframe from FlyTampa at all and I wanted a good rendition of my home airport, the one that I fly from and over the most in the simulator. For, me they did a good job on the modelling and layout and I am happy to have supported another developer - and a local one focused on Canadian sceneries - who did make a great effort. But yes, their newness shone through and the airport was very difficulty to taxi around with frequent stutters and blurries. The next day I picked up FlyTampa and will continue to use their version as the performance is indistinguishable from the default YYZ. 

It is a good point Virtuali makes that it is quite challenging to make a large, densely populated airport, especially one in a major city, and optimize it so that it both looks convincing and performs well. But I hope we have more developers who learn to do this and for that reason I am happy I supported REG designs, as I am hoping they can achieve this in time. 

What I am more happy about is that we now have a version of CYYZ that performs very well in a simulator -- because the P3D version was always a stuttering mess unless I lowered settings considerably. 

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Dan Scott

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I saw the REG version launch, and was about to jump. But then heard Fly Tampa were doing the same airport. Having bought each FLT release for MSFS i had a pretty word not allowed good idea on the quality, so waited and purchased it on release.


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Posted (edited)

The REG guys are working on optimization right now.

Also whoops, I meant to post that trailer in the dedicated FlyTampa thread, not this one.

Edited by Tuskin38

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, virtuali said:

So please, let's all try to pay more attention to technical aspects of a product

"Someone posted before in this thread a screenshot with the MSFS performance counter"

he, I mean me 😀 did it on request by another someone because scenery developers don't provide these numbers.

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/615856-im-stumped-msfs-says-installed-but-is-not/?do=findComment&comment=4733795

how can a customer check "technical aspects" before purchasing a product? either you offer a demo version (don't know if that is possible) or it is up to the scenery developers to advertise their product's benefits and advantages over their competitor. why haven't virtuali, Flytampa etc. long ago established a benchmark or similar tool, that would allow to compare scenery products and show their expertise expressed in numbers for the critical performance values, beyond pretty and unrealistically "photoshoped" and "premiered" youtubes and beautiful screenshots? create a test file with reproducible conditions, and show fps, VRAM used etc etc and let the customer then decide which one he prefers. Instead, all I ever see are these cinematic hollywood style youtube scenery adverts of super smooth, time lapse effects, airports with dramatic sound tracks as if it was Apocalypse Now, never a single fps or VRAM number. Honest numbers included in those videos is how you could shape the market, not by prayers like "let's all try to pay more attention to technical aspects". otherwise it is often like ordering from the menu in a new restaurant, surprise surprise - no returns accepted.

Edited by turbomax

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Well, I bought the flytampa version for Toronto, and I am extremely pleased.  In the past for FSX I bought many of flytampa airports such as Midway, Montreal, Toronto, Boston, just to name a few.  Its nice to have the eye candy, but folks who have been flight simming for awhile, are more concerned about performance than textures.

On the otherhand its nice to have a new developer in the mix, but I am not going to buy an airport for $20.00 and its stutter city out of the box.  I spent enough money  on this computer a year ago for FS 2020

Concluding, if I am going to be simming ,  want a butter smooth flight as much as possible into a major city airport  and thank u flytampa.

 

 

 


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