Electric Cars...

[IanHarrison 522]

2 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

Short supply? How do you mean? 

They cannot generate enough and have to shut certain areas down for a couple of hours a day every so often.

[martin-w 3,234]

17 minutes ago, IanHarrison said:

They cannot generate enough and have to shut certain areas down for a couple of hours a day every so often.

 

Where? Not happening in most developed nations as afar as I know. Who is they? I'm sure there is some nation somewhere with power issues but that's certainly not the norm. 

[Ron Attwood 3,464]

19 minutes ago, martin-w said:

but that's certainly not the norm. 

Not yet maybe, but soon.

[IanHarrison 522]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

 

Where? Not happening in most developed nations as afar as I know. Who is they? I'm sure there is some nation somewhere with power issues but that's certainly not the norm. 

I am only talking locally. South Africa. "They" is ESKOM, the Electricity Supply Commission. Don't have enough working generating stations on line most of the time.

[birdguy 3,943]

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

Did you know that the 95% of car journeys in the US are under 48km (30 miles)?

In fact, according to the US Department of Energy, 60% of all vehicle trips are less than 9km (6 miles) and the average individual car journey is just 15.1km (9.4 miles), rising to 19.4km (12.1 miles) for rural areas.

 

Ten years ago once a year I would drive to South Carolina to visit my daughter and granddaughter.  That was 1800 miles and took me 3 days.  Once a year I would drive to California to visit my brother.  That was 1200 miles and took two days.

I live in Roswell NM.  The closest town north is Vaughn, 98 miles.  Tatum to the east is 90 miles.  Artesia is 30 miles to the south and another 60 miles to Carlsbad.  To the west it's 70 mile to Ruidoso or Lincoln.

If we wanted to shop for outdoors or fishing equipment (other than the cheap stuff sold at WalMart) it's Lubbock or Albuquerque, each 200 miles.

When I had my gall bladder removal the airlifted me from Roswell to Las Cruces, about 200 miles, to the specialist that does those operations.  

I was once riding a train a cross southern Wyoming having lunch in the diner.  A couple from New Jersey were siting opposite.  The woman asked, "Where are the towns?  How come there are so few town?"  "Water," I told her, "There's no water."

People who have never been in the west have no idea about driving distances out here.  It's a long way to anywhere and challenges the limits of electric car ranges.  And unless you put charging stations out in the middle of nowhere they are not viable.

Today I am an old man who can no longer drive those long distances.  But if I were younger and still had a hankering to do so I would need a 300 to 400 mile range.

People out here go four wheeling.  That means getting to a place where you can do that, participate in the activity, and get back home at the end of the day.  That requires more range than today's electrics have.

Come back and talk to those who live in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming when electrics have a 400-500 mile range.

I know nothing about the size of these batteries.  Many pickup truck owners here have spare gas tanks on them to extend their range.  Could you put multiple battery packs in an electric pickup truck to extend it's range?

Having said all that I am not against electrics.  One would be ideal for me now because I don't go out of town.  But for you have never been out here in big sky country (sorry to steal your slogan Montana) your arguments may fall on many deaf ears.

Noel

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by birdguy

[martin-w 3,234]

1 hour ago, Ron Attwood said:

Not yet maybe, but soon.

 

You mean due to the demands of electric cars? The UK National Grid say not. What with the "smart grid" they say it wont be as big issue.

 

 

Quote

 

Enough capacity exists   

With the first of these, the energy element, the most demand for electricity we’ve had in recent years in the UK was for 62GW in 2002. Since then, due to improved energy efficiency such as the installation of solar panels, the nation’s peak demand has fallen by roughly 16 per cent. Even if the impossible happened and we all switched to EVs overnight, we think demand would only increase by around 10 per cent. So we’d still be using less power as a nation than we did in 2002 and this is well within the range of manageable load fluctuation.

'When' matters, not just 'how much'

More complicated though is the issue of when that power demand actually happens – is it all at once or spread through the day and week?

The traditional evening peak of electricity demand is between 6pm and 8pm, and this might well coincide with people returning from their commute and plugging in their cars.

If we want to provide sufficient infrastructure and energy for EVs as cheaply as possible for consumers, we ideally don’t want to add to that evening peak and need to spread that demand better.

With this in mind, recently the Government’s EV Energy Taskforce recommended that all future car chargers should be ‘smart by design’. This means that no matter what time you come home and plug your car in at, it will charge when you need it but will pause during that evening peak when energy is most expensive and demand on the grid is highest.

 

 

Quote

When it comes to the capacity of the wires required to deliver that power to the nation’s EV charging points, National Grid’s transmission system is ever-evolving and suitably robust to cope with the forecast uptake in EVs.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/5-myths-about-electric-vehicles-busted

Edited March 11, 2022 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,234]

11 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Come back and talk to those who live in New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming when electrics have a 400-500 mile range.

 

Its an average  percentage quoted Noel. There will always be people who aren't "average"  in terms of their needs. 

EV's already do have a 400 mile range. Expensive though.

But its not really about range anyway, all of us have to stop way short of the range you quoted to go to the toilet, in fact its not healthy to sit in a car for 400 miles plus, not good for our physiology and tiredness can be killer. Regular breaks are a priority the safety experts tell us, and during those breaks you charge your body with food and charge your car with electrons.  The Mazda CX5 I had only had  a tank big enough for 350 miles.

People say they don't want to hang about for 30 minuities charging a car, but forget that their bladder needs emptying and their stomach needs filing with food and fluid. 

 

17 minutes ago, birdguy said:

That was 1800 miles and took me 3 days.

 

Not relevant to an EV's range as you didn't sit in the car for 1800 miles and 3 days. You had breaks. 😃

[rjack1282 316]

For that 1600 mile road trip I previously mentioned, this was with my wife and our three young kids.  Let me tell you that we had to stop more times and for longer than the car did.  We absolutely could not have made that trip any quicker with an ICE vehicle.

However, in most situations, a long trip in EV will absolutely take longer than the same trip in an ICE vehicle.  There's no need to sugarcoat that fact.  That same trip solo or with my wife where we could swap driving duties would take significantly longer in fact in an EV...even the Tesla with the supercharging network and charging speeds.

Expectations and a little planning go along way with EV road tripping.  You can't just wait until your fuel light comes on and then stop at the next exit to fill up.

[charliearon 3,022]

OK, someone has now crossed the line and this topic has run it's course on the open forum.  Please use the PM system to discuss further, if you wish!

[Bob Scott 7,719]

After review, I've unlocked this topic since most of the participants were keeping to the topic (EVs).  That said, I want to make it clear right now that this discussion is not about climate change.  We're not having those food fights on our forums any more.  If it morphs back into that again, the thread will get closed for the duration.

[martin-w 3,234]

5 hours ago, birdguy said:

Could you put multiple battery packs in an electric pickup truck to extend it's range?

 

The larger vehicles have longest range, more room for batteries. A Mini Cooper Electric has a range of just 115 miles. A Renault Zoe has a range of 239 miles. A Mercedes EQs has a range of 483 miles. 

Additional weight is a negative of course, but to be honest I'm not sure of the physics of that. I'm presuming that bigger heavier batteries increase range but reduce acceleration. Not sure though. And of course in terms of a pickup, a bigger battery means less room for passengers and whatever we cart around in a pickup.

The holy grail is smaller, lighter batteries with the same capability as the larger ones.  Structural batteries are the future, where the battery replaces structural components, thus saving a lot of weight. 

 

[TuFun 433]

[birdguy 3,943]

4 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

but 9.2 sec 1/4 mi at 152 mph is pretty good for a fully equipped unmodified 4 door luxury sedan.

Why would need that kind of acceleration or top speed except just to have it for bragging rights?

Someone earlier was comparing torque.  Why is having gobs of torque so important.  Does more torque increase your mileage or battery life?

Who needs 250 pounds of toque to driving to work in the morning?  Who needs be able to do the quarter mile in 9.2 seconds drive to the neighborhood supermarket?  Who needs a top speed of 152 mph for a vacation highway trip when posted speed limits are half that much? 

Am I missing something here?

Noel

  

 

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

My biggest grip about electric cars is that they all tend to look like, electric cars. For whatever reason it seems like a lot of them tend to veer towards the nerdy look or look overly futuristic, imho.

I have a few acquaintances who have some of the higher end Tesla’s and even though the acceleration is impressive, I just don’t care for the exterior look or cabin. If Tesla could make a car that didn’t look so much like something George Jetson would drive, maybe I’d change my mind.

The only ones I’ve seen that look more or less like a regular car are some of the electric offerings from BMW, Mercedes and Audi. However having a bimmer and being a long time fan, I think they ruined the look of the newer models with the oversized kidneys, so I’d probably go with the Mercedes or Audi if I had to choose. That being said, I did like the BMW i8 but not with the two tone color schemes.

 

[martin-w 3,234]

9 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Doesn't seem to be the case with the Tesla Plaid 4800-5300 lbs (certainly not a light car) but 9.2 sec 1/4 mi at 152 mph is pretty good for a fully equipped unmodified 4 door luxury sedan.

 

Yes, I'm not sure of the physics of that to be honest Rob, how it works. You are correct, but there must be a negative consequence of the increased weight. 

 

9 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

As soon as EV's hit 700 mi range on a single charge, that'll be my golden measure in terms of long enough distance ... I can't do more than about 11 hours in one drive session without a break (I'm getting old, restrooms beckon me on long hauls).

 

11 hours without a break!!! Are you one of the X-Men Rob? 😃 The road safety experts say we shouldn't drive for more than 4 hours at a time, as its a safety hazard. Tiredness kills. 4 hours then at least a 40 minute break they advise. And to be honest, if you have cars in the US that can do 11 hours straight on one tank of fuel, they must have fuel bladders on the back seat. 

Most I've ever driven in one go is 3 1/2 hours. My old CX5 only had a fuel tank range of about 400 miles on a run. 

No ICE car I know of can drive for 700 miles on one tank of fuel, so I don't think its fair that we should expect nearly double that in an EV. 

Rather than range, I would say its more about availability of charging stations and rapidity of charge.

Range for an EV the same as the range for a ICE car fuel tank, lots of charging stations, and rapid charge similar to the time it takes to fill a tank with petrol is the holy grail.