Electric Cars...

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

so I’d probably go with the Mercedes or Audi if I had to choose. That being said, I did like the BMW i8 but not with the two tone color schemes.

 

There are quite a few conventional looking EV's now. I quite like the Audi e-tron to be honest. I would need a lot smaller though where I'm located, and ideally I'd prefer smaller for the UK too. 

The BMW i8 is actually a hybrid, not an EV. Production ended in 2020. 

Jaguar I-Pace is nice too. 

 

[martin-w 3,235]

5 hours ago, birdguy said:

Why would need that kind of acceleration or top speed except just to have it for bragging rights?

Someone earlier was comparing torque.  Why is having gobs of torque so important.  Does more torque increase your mileage or battery life?

Who needs 250 pounds of toque to driving to work in the morning?  Who needs be able to do the quarter mile in 9.2 seconds drive to the neighborhood supermarket?  Who needs a top speed of 152 mph for a vacation highway trip when posted speed limits are half that much? 

Am I missing something here?

Noel

  

 

 

 

A agree with you Noel. In 40 years of driving I've never had an occasion where I needed 0-6 in 3 seconds.

It s a sales tactic relay. Selling the car on the "awesome factor" the "wow factor". 

Rob is correct that certain manoeuvres, like overtaking, can be safer with better acceleration, but I really don't think anybody needs the "ludicrous mode" acceleration we see in many EV's. And of course that sort of mind-numbing performance under one's foot has a negative aspect. Extreme power might be beneficial in some relatively rare circumstances but its also downright dangerous in others.

With great power comes great responsibility. Nobody needs the acceleration of an F18 on a steam catapult. 

[Luke 782]

Fun fact - today's Toyota Camry has around 100 more horsepower than the Ferrari 308 that was in Magnum PI.

And FWIW, having 250 ft/lbs of torque in my Acura was very useful when I used to commute on I-75.

Cheers!

[sightseer 895]

The torque of an electric motor is constant no matter the RPM and that makes it much more efficient than an ICE engine which has a peak efficiency point.  Personally I think its pretty cool that efficiency (which usually infers slow) actually means high performance in this case.  Whether one needs that performance is another issue but I don't know anything about EV drive trains so it may be easy to solve...they just need more people to say "Can you tame it down a bit - its too much power for me" hmmmm...

What I wish I had the money to buy is the new Ford Lightning which can act as a backup power supply for your house (with proper fittings).  I guess any electric vehicle could do that but thats one of their selling points and it works on a guy like me.

I did find an answer to my question on kWh needs for a short grocery store trip.  The internet says that EVs have efficiency ratings expressed in kWh per hundred miles.  The average is .35kWh per mile so it would take about 4kWh to get to a store 6 miles away and back.  The Chevy Bolt needs .29kWh per mile.  Each of the two batteries I bought for my house backup power supply has nearly 2.5kWh of storage and they weigh just under 50 pounds each.  My house fridge only needs 820Watthours per 24 hour period.

Really, people can be against solar and battery power if they want to but I don't see why.

[birdguy 3,943]

4 hours ago, martin-w said:

(I'm getting old, restrooms beckon me on long hauls).

When I was driving cross country without my wife along, I always carried an empty milk bottle for such purposes.  It gave me a lot more range.

Noel

[sightseer 895]

26 minutes ago, birdguy said:

When I was driving cross country

You started this thread by saying you didn't drive very far anymore and thats why an EV might be good for you.  You're being a contrarian to yourself I think.

If I were you, I'd stick with the hybrid.

But I just did a check on EV charging stations - I was actually looking for some technical info - and there are 16 right in my general area...some Tesla and some ChargePoint.  The home chargers are 240VAC 40Amp which puts them at 9600Watts so in less than a half hour you are fully recharged from a short trip.

Edited March 12, 2022 by sightseer

[G-RFRY 1,710]

Not one EV tested by What Car achieved the range stated by the manufacturer, and on top of the price you have to add home charging point installation. And in 30 years time the present off peak electric may become the peak power time with the country plugging in the EV.     

[birdguy 3,943]

8 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

Torque is very important ... instant Torque even more so ... some examples:

1.  You're at corner want to turn onto a road and it's difficult to see the traffic you want to join (perhaps a truck is parked is block some of the view, or it's on a curve), you pull out and suddenly see a vehicle coming at you, you hit the throttle pedal and instant acceleration (no downshifting, no waiting for RPM to build, etc.) and avoid getting hit.

2.  You're wanting to merge on a freeway from an on ramp, lots of traffic coming at higher speed, you need to get over into a freeway lane quickly before the merge ends, again tap the throttle instant torque and you're up to freeway speed and no issues with the merge.

3.  You see an UFO tracking you, you need to make quick instant evasive maneuvers so they can't lock on their tractor beam.

4.  You're doing a moonshine run from Bitter Lakes Farms down 265 to 380 to Main St. and deliver to Black Cock Brewery before the cops catch you.

Downshifting in the transmission and waiting for optimal RPMs in order to accelerate is slow in gasoline based engines ... difference between getting hit and not ... or causing other traffic to brake and/or change lanes to get out of a slow merge.

150 mph isn't the top speed in a Tesla Plaid, unrestricted it's 205 mph.  As far as the need for speed, who am I to judge, none of my business ... it's your moonshine.

Cheers, Rob.

Rob, 90% of the drivers out there, myself included,  are not qualified to perform such maneuvers.  I never was.  When I was young man and we all thought we were Mario Andrettis the holy grail for acceleration was 0 to 60 in 10 seconds.  How quaint eh?

As for running moonshine I hire younger guys who are better drivers than I am to do the driving.  They're better at it than I am.

Nor let's say your tooling down the road at 205 mph and you come around a curve and see an accident blocking both lanes of traffic.  How's your braking power with a heavy electric car?  Or do these wingless airplanes come equipped with James Bond ejection seats?

I'm not against electric cars.  If I live long enough I might even get one to drive from the nursing home to the senior center.  But not at 205 miles an hour.  As Clint Eastwood once said, "A man has got to know his limitations."  

Noel

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by birdguy

[birdguy 3,943]

46 minutes ago, sightseer said:

You started this thread by saying you didn't drive very far anymore and thats why an EV might be good for you.  You're being a contrarian to yourself I think.

I still think that.  But I won't need  break 1/4 mile record for acceleration or a top speed of 205 mph.  Don't they make ordinary ones for mere mortals like myself?

Noel

Edited March 12, 2022 by birdguy

[Luke 782]

12 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Rob, 90% of the drivers out there, myself included,  are not qualified to perform such maneuvers.

#2 in Rob's list is something that anyone who commutes on an urban or suburban Interstate needs to do several times a day.

Cheers!

[birdguy 3,943]

27 minutes ago, Luke said:

#2 in Rob's list is something that anyone who commutes on an urban or suburban Interstate needs to do several times a day.

Don't they do that now Luke, every day, with conventional automobiles of variable performance charts?  When I worked for Air Research I spent a summer in Los Angeles driving a rental car, a Ford Fairlane think, and was able to negotiate the on ramps without 200+ pounds of torque.  Instead of speeding up to catch up with a slot ahead of me I waited for a slot to approach.  I never had to wait very long.

I like the concept of electric cars.  But some of you are making it sound like if you don't have all that performance you shouldn't be out there driving.  

Yes, an electric car would be ideal for me now since I only drive to the market and to medical appointments or to friend's homes.  Sometimes I drive 15 miles out to the wildlife refuge to look at the birds.  The speed limit is 45 miles an hour.  It's been a couple of years since I've driven any faster than that.  Maybe I should just keep my Prius lest I be tempted to out accelerate the guy next to me for a half a block when the light turns green.

Noel

 

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by birdguy

[Luke 782]

14 minutes ago, birdguy said:

When I worked for Air Research I spent a summer in Los Angeles driving a rental car, a Ford Fairlane think, and was able to negotiate the on ramps without 200+ pounds of torque.  Instead of speeding up to catch up with a slot ahead of me I waited for a slot to approach.  I never had to wait very long.

What year was this? 🙂

Cheers!

[birdguy 3,943]

7 minutes ago, Luke said:

What year was this?

It was sometme in the 1980s.  Probably around 1987.

Noel

[Luke 782]

I think traffic volumes have gone up a bit in the last third of a century. 🙂

Cheers!

[dave2013 1,129]

Here's some facts about EV batteries:

In a normal 1,000-pound Li-ion EV battery, there is about 25 pounds of lithium. Since lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, about 25,000 pounds of brines are needed to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.

A 1,000-pound Li-ion EV battery typically also contains about 30 pounds of cobalt. Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, so we need to process almost 30,000 pounds of ore to get 30 pounds of cobalt.

A 1,000-pound EV battery also has 110 pounds of graphite. At 10% concentration, 1,100 pounds of ore must be processed for each battery.

It is enlightening to read about the sources of these materials and the harmful effects of mining them. 

Dave