Report Cessna 414AW Chancellor issues

[CanadianCaptainMoustache 30]

I haven't read the previous pages to know what's been reported and what hasn't, but here's a copy/paste from a brief review of mine. This is the bugs section only

- A few of the textures are oddly low quality, like the seat covers and curtains. They appear greatly out of place in a plane that otherwise looks great.

- Prop RPM cannot be cycled on the ground during the runup unless you go fully into feather. Inflight the prop governor takes a lot of movement to get response from the props. Also the governors hold RPM at power settings low enough where we should see falloff.

- Slow speed handling leaves a lot to be desired. Elevator at slow speeds is very touchy. Stalls are virtually non-existent at light weights and are much lower (15 knots-ish) than IRL at various weights. There is no tendency to drop a wing at low weights and I could even hold a decent uncoordinated turn at idle with full rudder and countering with aileron. There was no tendency to spin.

- Numerous bugs are present including the avionics having power without battery on, fuel totalizer not coming on without avionics, Nav 1 LOC not working on the GPS, walkaround click spots taking you to random camera locations, autopilot/txp not dimming with light dimmers, etc. There were more that came up during my few flights but these pop to mind.

- Window textures are bad. Like, really bad. The front windscreen is covered in black fingerprints. The side windows have that default Asobo scratch texture but cranked up.

- The autopilot has major issues. It won't hold IAS or altitude hold with any stability. It wanders, weaves, and bobs. In addition, when it intercepts an altitude, it appears to be GPS altitude and not pressure altitude so it can be off by several hundred feet. In addition, autopilot logic doesn't work as I believe it should. If you're in NAV mode, this autopilot requires you to deactivate NAV before you can turn on HDG which is unlike any autopilot I've used IRL

- GPS HSI sensitivity is far too low without any transition to higher sensitivity during approach mode. GPS approaches in this way are difficult to gauge and impossible to hand-fly as you just don't have the sensitivity to fly the approach by eye.

- Certain sounds are FAR too loud - things like the fuel pumps and ground roll almost overshadow the engine noises when IRL they wouldn't even be audible over the running engines. 

- Several switches have reversed logic with regards to the mouse wheel. Scrolling down turns it on in several cases.

[ryanbatc 12,832]

15 minutes ago, jfwharton said:

So how do you lean this aircraft?  I'm flying in the Denver area.  After takeoff I initially set the mixture levers to about 5.  After leveloff at 16,000 feet I tried adjusting the mixture and discovered something interesting.  If I set the mixture to full and then retard the levers the fuel burn goes from over 40 gal/hr down to 10.6 at a setting of around 4.  But if I further retard the mixture levers the burn starts to go up.  At setting 5 it is up to 31.6 gal/hr and if I retard the levers further down to 7 the burn rate goes down to 26.6.  This doesn't make sense to me.  I thought when leaning the engines you reduce the mixture and listen for the engine to increase and then as you lean you get to the point where the engine starts to decrease and you bump it up just a little at that point.

Unfortunately there is a bug with Asobo's handling of turbocharged engines.  Irl for these engines you'd lean them out a touch for initial cruise power and not touch them till critical altitude (the altitude where the turbochargers don't produce full power) which in this plane is 21000 ft.  After FL210 you'd have to lean a bit up to its service ceiling of FL300.

With the bug you'd have to start leaning around 6000-8000 ft and continue as you climb.  In the GTN 750 and 750 xi models the levers aren't animating but the leaning works.

[ryanbatc 12,832]

3 minutes ago, CanadianCaptainMoustache said:

- Slow speed handling leaves a lot to be desired. Elevator at slow speeds is very touchy. Stalls are virtually non-existent at light weights and are much lower (15 knots-ish) than IRL at various weights. There is no tendency to drop a wing at low weights and I could even hold a decent uncoordinated turn at idle with full rudder and countering with aileron. There was no tendency to spin.

 

I was going to answer another poster but since you mentioned this I'll answer here.  at max gross I am seeing the horn go off (landing config power on) just above the end of the white arc.  Full stall a touch below it.  ISA conditions.

For power off stall in a climb, clean config , very close to max gross (lost some weight in the climb of course) I got the stall horn and then a pronounced wing drop and then probably an incipient spin before I recovered.  

I agree at low weights the stall speed is too slow and there is not much of a wing drop.

[jfwharton 50]

When using a livery with the PMS5 GTN 750, if I click on the home button on the second (right) GTN it changes the first (left) GTN to the HOME page.  So the HOME button does not work on the second (right) GTN.

[the_simpilot 81]

10 hours ago, Flysimware said:

For those who are confused about the icing. There is only 1 PCT STRUCTURAL_ICE_PCT  Float so this causes an issue for realism. Asobo needs to add more for icing.

So this is used as a blast for the boots so the ice can cycle build then be removed each time you run the cycle. So for the prop and windshield we have to use visibility tag so when you run these anti-ice variables they can visually remove ice. But we can only do this instantly since its a vis tag. 

So as far as I understood from what you're saying this is a SDK/Sim limitation. I'm not a developer or coder so I don't know too much about how all these are coded. However, your response makes me wonder how this was simulated at least to the level the sim allows as of now by other developers like Aerosoft, Carenado, Big Radials, Just flight etc. Their ice simulation seems to be on par with default aircraft in the sim and ice does not disappear instantaneously when you flip the anti-ice switch. Could you please elaborate how it's not possible for the 414?

Thanks!

[Bentree_ 9]

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

The 605 isn't like the default system.

Example on what I do. 

1) First set altitude you are climbing to in the analogue selector below the HSI.  If you just tookoff, trim your plane for climb (I use 35" and 2500 rpm at 140 kias for cruise climb). 

step1 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

2) Once trimmed, press FD only.  Bug your heading to whatever you want, press HDG on the AP, and press the tiny little white button on the altitude selector to ARM it.  You don't have to ARM altitude but if in IAS or VS your plane will continue climbing or descending beyond your selected altitude.  Also select a pitch mode - I like either VS or IAS mode.  When you press either they should display what you're currently at.  Mine went to 1600 fpm.  At this point the FD command bars tell you want to do - and you can continue hand flying if you desire.  

step2 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

3) Then just press AP to engage the AP servos.  In my pic I changed to IAS mode at 140 kias, I also selected Direct To my destination, and the AP is turning the aircraft and pitching for 140 knots as per the GFC605.  Labels at the top of the GFC605 are active, smaller ones at the bottom are armed.  You can see "Selected Altitude Capture" ALTS is armed....so the plane will capture the altitude dialed in the analogue selector below the HSI.

step3 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Note:  the ALT button is for holding present ALT.  You never use to climb or descend.  

 

 

[V1ROTA7E 718]

3 hours ago, Gregg_Seipp said:

I thought it might have something to do with props phasing in and out but I can hear that underneath.

You normally turn the fuel pumps off when setting climb power. The prop phase sounds like a WooWoooWoooW

[the_simpilot 81]

Does Flysimware has a development roadmap for this aircraft? I'd like to know what is planned to be implemented and what will be simulated. At this beta stage it's no different than aircraft that are cheaper in price with less fidelity. I'd like to know and hear from the developers if possible on the things below.

  - Plans on circuit breaker simulation

  - Will there be failures simulated so that having operational circuit breakers has a use?

  - Will there be engine failures simulation?

  - Engine wear/tear over time and maintenance so that animated oil/engine doors have a purpose rather than being animated only

  - Pilot mistakes causing problems such as forgetting to turn on fuel pumps will have an effect on startup or climb/cruise procedures not followed properly causes engine failures and others?

 

At this price tag I think there needs to be deep system simulation with high fidelity to justify the higher price. I'm sure there are plans but I was not able to find any information. Is there a published development road map?

[Bentree_ 9]

1 hour ago, ryanbatc said:

The 605 isn't like the default system.

Example on what I do. 

1) First set altitude you are climbing to in the analogue selector below the HSI.  If you just tookoff, trim your plane for climb (I use 35" and 2500 rpm at 140 kias for cruise climb). 

step1 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

2) Once trimmed, press FD only.  Bug your heading to whatever you want, press HDG on the AP, and press the tiny little white button on the altitude selector to ARM it.  You don't have to ARM altitude but if in IAS or VS your plane will continue climbing or descending beyond your selected altitude.  Also select a pitch mode - I like either VS or IAS mode.  When you press either they should display what you're currently at.  Mine went to 1600 fpm.  At this point the FD command bars tell you want to do - and you can continue hand flying if you desire.  

step2 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

3) Then just press AP to engage the AP servos.  In my pic I changed to IAS mode at 140 kias, I also selected Direct To my destination, and the AP is turning the aircraft and pitching for 140 knots as per the GFC605.  Labels at the top of the GFC605 are active, smaller ones at the bottom are armed.  You can see "Selected Altitude Capture" ALTS is armed....so the plane will capture the altitude dialed in the analogue selector below the HSI.

step3 by Ryan Butterworth, on Flickr

Note:  the ALT button is for holding present ALT.  You never use to climb or descend.  

 

You are really helpful...thank you. But unfortunately It is not quite working.....

When i follow your way the AP display gives ALTS in the lower part (small letters) so thats okay, but as soon as i set the AP to ON my VS wich is at that moment +1500 ft/min is right away turning in MINUS 1500 ft/min....whatever i try...I can not change that and the aircraft is going to descent. Also the minus 1500 ft/min I can turn it up to zero ft/min but not into a climb...i have to disengage autopilot and FD and then set it again whereafter i can set a climbing 1500 ft/min. (but then again as soon as i set the AP to ON....it is turning the VS from a plus to a minus agian over and over.

[LesOReilly 176]

2 hours ago, Bentree_ said:

I seem to have major problems with the Autopilot altitude holds, maybe i do something wrong but.....

When i active the AP en press ALT then i always get a altitude reading in the autopilot that is thousands of feet above my actual altitude (i am not looking at the transponder). When i try to change the altitude setting i seem not to be able to.

Fiddling with the altitude alert device isn't giving any help or support too (i select the wanted altitude there and activate it (orange light goes on). 

Am I the only one strugling with this?

The Config has the wrong Altimeter set for the AP to use... currently is looking for the 3rd Altimeter so config = 2 and needs to be the first = 0 so that if basis it's indicated ALT off the primary altimiter.

[ryanbatc 12,832]

13 minutes ago, CanadianCaptainMoustache said:

I haven't read the previous pages to know what's been reported and what hasn't, but here's a copy/paste from a brief review of mine. This is the bugs section only

- A few of the textures are oddly low quality, like the seat covers and curtains. They appear greatly out of place in a plane that otherwise looks great.

- Prop RPM cannot be cycled on the ground during the runup unless you go fully into feather. Inflight the prop governor takes a lot of movement to get response from the props. Also the governors hold RPM at power settings low enough where we should see falloff.

- Slow speed handling leaves a lot to be desired. Elevator at slow speeds is very touchy. Stalls are virtually non-existent at light weights and are much lower (15 knots-ish) than IRL at various weights. There is no tendency to drop a wing at low weights and I could even hold a decent uncoordinated turn at idle with full rudder and countering with aileron. There was no tendency to spin.

- Numerous bugs are present including the avionics having power without battery on, fuel totalizer not coming on without avionics, Nav 1 LOC not working on the GPS, walkaround click spots taking you to random camera locations, autopilot/txp not dimming with light dimmers, etc. There were more that came up during my few flights but these pop to mind.

- Window textures are bad. Like, really bad. The front windscreen is covered in black fingerprints. The side windows have that default Asobo scratch texture but cranked up.

- The autopilot has major issues. It won't hold IAS or altitude hold with any stability. It wanders, weaves, and bobs. In addition, when it intercepts an altitude, it appears to be GPS altitude and not pressure altitude so it can be off by several hundred feet. In addition, autopilot logic doesn't work as I believe it should. If you're in NAV mode, this autopilot requires you to deactivate NAV before you can turn on HDG which is unlike any autopilot I've used IRL

- GPS HSI sensitivity is far too low without any transition to higher sensitivity during approach mode. GPS approaches in this way are difficult to gauge and impossible to hand-fly as you just don't have the sensitivity to fly the approach by eye.

- Certain sounds are FAR too loud - things like the fuel pumps and ground roll almost overshadow the engine noises when IRL they wouldn't even be audible over the running engines. 

- Several switches have reversed logic with regards to the mouse wheel. Scrolling down turns it on in several cases.

Gar forum isn't letting me multi quote for some reason

1) Agree

2)Bug has been previously reported and logged thanks

3) I'm not personally seeing this but I know others are...  so perhaps we need to post our control setups/sensitivities.  My plane handles like a twin of this weight would...controls are stable...at slower speeds a bit mushy like I'd expect.  

4) answered above

5)Fuel computer not being on main battery bus unfortunately is a bug from Asobo - they won't allow gauges programmed in certain languages to be on the battery bus - no clue why.  GNS530 Nav while CDI in GPS bug logged already, I never use camera quick views but I think FSW are looking it.  Agree the AP isn't on a dimmer for some reason.

6)There are some issues with the windscreen textures - double raindrops/textures/ logged already

7)I understand some are having AP issues.  I tested on the traditional and GFC605 - it's quite stable on my end I'm not sure why some are having issues.  AP being looked at later today by devs.  I do seem to have an issue on the 605 where if I extend gear and flaps, the plane descends quickly and loses the GP or GS.  Yes I observe the same for button order pressing like NAV followed by HDG

8 ) sensitivity for HSI was just amended to be in next update

9) sounds may be dependent on in-sim sliders because mine are really nice.  I have heard reports like yours though.

10 )Concur - possibly dependent on Legacy vs Current mouse control however.  Regardless has been logged.

P.S. I'm just a helper guy not a dev or anything.

[ryanbatc 12,832]

7 minutes ago, Bentree_ said:

You are really helpful...thank you. But unfortunately It is not quite working.....

When i follow your way the AP display gives ALTS in the lower part (small letters) so thats okay, but as soon as i set the AP to ON my VS wich is at that moment +1500 ft/min is right away turning in MINUS 1500 ft/min....whatever i try...I can not change that and the aircraft is going to descent. Also the minus 1500 ft/min I can turn it up to zero ft/min but not into a climb...i have to disengage autopilot and FD and then set it again whereafter i can set a climbing 1500 ft/min. (but then again as soon as i set the AP to ON....it is turning the VS from a plus to a minus agian over and over.

Shoot that's frustrating for you and me because I can't see that.  FSW said they are looking at the AP tonight.  Are you using PMS or TDS GTN gauges?

[LesOReilly 176]

13 minutes ago, the_simpilot said:

So as far as I understood from what you're saying this is a SDK/Sim limitation. I'm not a developer or coder so I don't know too much about how all these are coded. However, your response makes me wonder how this was simulated at least to the level the sim allows as of now by other developers like Aerosoft, Carenado, Big Radials, Just flight etc. Their ice simulation seems to be on par with default aircraft in the sim and ice does not disappear instantaneously when you flip the anti-ice switch. Could you please elaborate how it's not possible for the 414?

Thanks!

I was part of this discussion early this AM with Mark as he was "whacking his head against the wall"... The issue here is that unlike a unified system you have and Electric De-Ice (Melt) for the Props and windshield.  But the control surfaces have boots on the leading edges. The Two modes you can use to remove the Ice is "Melt" or "Blast" but you only have the one Ice Variable...  If he changes the Wings to be a Melt (which would make the Window/props) then they would not reflect the correct behaviour of building up the ICE and then Popping the Boots to "blast" the Ice off the leading edge.  So the flying behavior would be wrong in that the ice would have to melt off like it was an electric or TKS fluid system

[Bentree_ 9]

7 minutes ago, LesOReilly said:

The Config has the wrong Altimeter set for the AP to use... currently is looking for the 3rd Altimeter so config = 2 and needs to be the first = 0 so that if basis it's indicated ALT off the primary altimiter.

Realy? So i am trying over and over all day, could not find any message of somebody else having problems and the config seems to be not okay?

At least now i know it isn't me.... thanks.

[Bentree_ 9]

1 minute ago, ryanbatc said:

Shoot that's frustrating for you and me because I can't see that.  FSW said they are looking at the AP tonight.  Are you using PMS or TDS GTN gauges?

Thanks again....i have both PMS and the TDS ones.....