I have to back Robert's assessment. I've been flying since 2006, and between the Cirrus and Cessna neither fly the same in the sim as in real life. In reality my yoke is into my chest on a really good landing. In MSFS I'm sometimes landing with fine, twitch-like movements to prevent the aircraft from entering a violent porpoise. The default aircraft respond too aggressively to very small inputs, in my opinion. The fundamental physics need another set of eyes by a few aeronautical science majors.

4 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't have those problems flying 4 different aircraft. I use the same crosswind techniques I use in real life flying. 

I'm sorry, using the same crosswind technics it's not a buletproof recepie in different aircraft. Yes,in theory will work, but each aircraft has it's own characteristics and will differ from model to model.

Not to be taken as a confrontation (I'm not looking for that) which are those 4 airplanes, please. I would like to compare, if possible.

 

Thanks. 

10 minutes ago, LRBS said:

I'm sorry, using the same crosswind technics it's not a buletproof recepie in different aircraft. Yes,in theory will work, but each aircraft has it's own characteristics and will differ from model to model.

Not to be taken as a confrontation (I'm not looking for that) which are those 4 airplanes, please. I would like to compare, if possible.

 

Thanks. 

DC6, JF Arrow, Seminole,Mooney Kodiak

Edited March 19, 20224 yr by Bobsk8

50 minutes ago, WestAir said:

The fundamental physics need another set of eyes by a few aeronautical science majors.

This is my most perplexing part of MSFS.  Flight modeling in computerized flight simulators is very, very old now.  And MSFS even has some history to go on w/ multiple prior flight sim releases, etc.   Certainly this has exactly NOTHING to do w/ the Xbox port!  The controller sensitivity interface is just far too unintuitive for my brain.

53 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

DC6, JF Arrow, Seminole,Mooney Kodiak

Thank you!

I can speak only for Kodiac and the Arrow.

Yes, there is quite a difference between those two compared to the stock MSFS airplanes which many will acknowledge that there is an issue with how they respond to the flight controls inputs and wind.

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

I have to back Robert's assessment. I've been flying since 2006, and between the Cirrus and Cessna neither fly the same in the sim as in real life. In reality my yoke is into my chest on a really good landing. In MSFS I'm sometimes landing with fine, twitch-like movements to prevent the aircraft from entering a violent porpoise. The default aircraft respond too aggressively to very small inputs, in my opinion. The fundamental physics need another set of eyes by a few aeronautical science majors.

Try this please (if is the case).

 

3 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Thank you!

I can speak only for Kodiac and the Arrow.

Yes, there is quite a difference between those two compared to the stock MSFS airplanes which many will acknowledge that there is an issue with how they respond to the flight controls inputs and wind.

Stock aircraft in any sim I have ever tried have always been junk. Of all of them, MSFS has the best ones, but frankly I don't waste my time flying them. 

Time and time again I see the quality (or lack thereof) of the default aircraft being used to make blanket statements about MSFS and its core aerodynamics/physics/etc. Apart from the acknowledged issues about ground physics in the core sim, do aircrafts like the FBW A320, Kodiak, DC6, upcoming Milviz C310 etc exhibit this slippery behaviour? Sounds like from all what I've heard/seen the answer is no.. i.e. Bob and others above.

Yes it would be helpful to clarify are we talking about default aircraft or pay-ware addons. For months I have been flying on the Kodiak and the DC6 and I do not notice this exaggerated behavior. So, I find myself wondering if it is just the characteristics of default aircraft or if I am not noticing something because I lack the experience to notice it.

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

I have to back Robert's assessment. I've been flying since 2006, and between the Cirrus and Cessna neither fly the same in the sim as in real life. In reality my yoke is into my chest on a really good landing. In MSFS I'm sometimes landing with fine, twitch-like movements to prevent the aircraft from entering a violent porpoise. The default aircraft respond too aggressively to very small inputs, in my opinion. The fundamental physics need another set of eyes by a few aeronautical science majors.

One hundred percent this.  It's frustrating to me that this sim is capable of such good physics, and yet I've only found two planes that, out of the box with no control sensitivity adjustments or mods, actually fly like airplanes. 

The rest (even some very popular 3rd party aircraft) are FAR too sensitive in pitch, with FAR too little inertia, and very strange trim behavior that starts at one speed, changes to a different speed after a second, and is - again - far too sensitive. 

I tried this sim and then stayed away from it for a long time because of this - until I was convinced to try a couple mods.  These proved that the sim is quite capable of very realistic behavior; I guess the default behavior is what's bad and too many aircraft devs are sticking with this?

As an example, a very popular 3rd party aircraft was recently updated. I was excited to try their new flight model, and so installed the update and removed the community flight model mod I'd been using.  Ouch.  Crazy sensitive pitch, no inertia, and rudder trim that moves far too fast and is several times more effective than the rudder itself!  Back to the "definitely wrong" mod...

The Milviz Porter and PMDG DC-6 are the two I've found that should be the gold standards of flight models in this sim.  They actually... feel like airplanes.  Flight model mods from Robert Young, CCM, Bush Leauge Legends etc. are good too.  I just don't understand how the base aircraft and too many 3rd party ones can be so bad! 

55 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Try this please (if is the case).

 

Control calibration isn't the issue.  Most of us probably use multiple sim aircraft and even multiple sims; if we had hardware or calibration issues we'd be aware.  It's behavior specific to too many aircraft in THIS sim only...

Latest dev chat mentioned improved ground physics down the line. Currently wheels are just 1 point each on the ground and they want to make them actual surfaces in contact with the ground at varying widths (tire sizes) and materials. So better ground handling and surface contamination will all eventually come from that

That's good news! 

10 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I don't have those problems flying 4 different aircraft. I use the same crosswind techniques I use in real life flying. 

I do Bob.... The crosswind handling and landing/rollout characteristics are terrible in this sim.  The moment you touch down even with proper application of aileron and pedals- you get a jerk to one side - like the plane is made of paper.  

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

One hundred percent this.  It's frustrating to me that this sim is capable of such good physics, and yet I've only found two planes that, out of the box with no control sensitivity adjustments or mods, actually fly like airplanes. 

Thank you!!  Good to know, I am not losing my skills...

 

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

The rest (even some very popular 3rd party aircraft) are FAR too sensitive in pitch, with FAR too little inertia, and very strange trim behavior that starts at one speed, changes to a different speed after a second, and is - again - far too sensitive. 

Yes, exactly my thoughts.  You know if you posted this last year you would attract the MSFS zealots to tell you what a bad person you are.

3 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

The Milviz Porter and PMDG DC-6 are the two I've found that should be the gold standards of flight models in this sim.  They actually... feel like airplanes.  Flight model mods from Robert Young, CCM, Bush Leauge Legends etc. are good too.  I just don't understand how the base aircraft and too many 3rd party ones can be so bad! 

I have the Milviz Porter and do enjoy it.  Certain other 3rd party aircraft flight models need lots of help by comparison.