[08APR22] PMDG 737 for MSFS Developer Update

[ShawnG 1,823]

3 hours ago, Abriael said:

Gaslighters? 🤔

Imagine thinking one knows better about 737 development than the best Boeing 737 developer in the industry and calling their statement "preposterous" with zero actual evidence. 🤔

Well, I for sure do not know more about 737 development than anybody really,  but a lot of us have a LOT of experience with this developer, and along with legit being the best in the business, he has a really long track record of not being particularly transparent on any number of issues, and on a few issues, blatant gaslighting.  Mr Randazzo has fully earned both his positive AND negative reputation, as far as I'm concerned.

There very well, COULD be a legit reason it is released this way, but it might also be purely for cash grab reasons, and just because the cap'n says otherwise doesn't really mean it isn't.  It also goes against their usual 737 release schedule, because in most other cases the 800/900 is out first, and I'm the one upset because I have to wait for the 600/700.  This time is different, I'm thinking, because the lesser used variants aren't a lesser priced expansion pack, and he wants to sell more of them by this strategy.

[Abriael 952]

19 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

There very well, COULD be a legit reason it is released this way

He explained several. And all sound very legitimate, unless you think giving the team a chance to rest a bit after two years of development working 6 days a week or more is not a legitimate reason. 

19 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

It also goes against their usual 737 release schedule, because in most other cases the 800/900 is out first, and I'm the one upset because I have to wait for the 600/700. 

Incidentally, he also explained the precedent. PMDG's first release of the 737 for FS2004 was indeed 600 and 700 first, followed by 800 and 900. 

It's quite misleading to talk about a "usual schedule" when there are only 3 cases, and they don't all match. 

19 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

This time is different, I'm thinking, because the lesser used variants aren't a lesser priced expansion pack, and he wants to sell more of them by this strategy.

If that was the case, he'd sell the 600 first, since there is zero doubt that it'll sell by far the least copies without being propped up by being the first release. Once people have the 700, only the few who are interested in the 600 specifically will buy it, and that's not exactly a big crowd since the 600 is miles behind all other variants in real world usage. Having the 700 first throws your theory out of the window. If the reasoning behind the order was to maximize sales and revenue, the 600 would have to inevitably go first.

The 700 is a rather popular variant used by many airlines. The 600, let's just say that there is ONE flying at the moment of this writing, in the whole world. I've actually kept track, and I've never seen more than two in the sky at the same time, worldwide. Making it go second inevitably turns it into an extremely niche product that will sell very, very little. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Abriael

[ShawnG 1,823]

I'm not even bothered by it.  The 700 is the one I fly the most anyway.  I have found over the years that it is generally best to ignore what Captain Bob says, as it's rarely illuminating in any sense whatsoever, unless one is just ravenously waiting on a release, and you enjoy having sunshine illuminate your lower digestive tract.  The products release, and I enjoy them.  not healthy to base your mental well being on product announcements one way or another.  So, I really do not care.  I have an opinion, based on years of experience with this company (although to be fair. I only flew GA stuff in the FS04 years.)  so I just don't accept anything he says at face value.  And to be completely honest, you claim to be a news editor, might want to tighten up that skeptical mindset a bit...

And as I don't accept his statements at face value, I'm not really swayed by your fervent attempts to defend either, FWIW.

[Abriael 952]

10 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

I'm not even bothered by it.  The 700 is the one I fly the most anyway.  I have found over the years that it is generally best to ignore what Captain Bob says, as it's rarely illuminating in any sense whatsoever, unless one is just ravenously waiting on a release, and you enjoy having sunshine illuminate your lower digestive tract.  The products release, and I enjoy them.  not healthy to base your mental well being on product announcements one way or another.  So, I really do not care.  I have an opinion, based on years of experience with this company (although to be fair. I only flew GA stuff in the FS04 years.)  so I just don't accept anything he says at face value.  And to be completely honest, you claim to be a news editor, might want to tighten up that skeptical mindset a bit...

And as I don't accept his statements at face value, I'm not really swayed by your fervent attempts to defend either, FWIW.

Ah, the little personal attack at the end is golden. Being the news editor at a website about video games doesn't mean seeking conspiracies and controversy at every corner. As a matter of fact, we've seen plenty of terrible journalism over the past few years doing just that. No thanks. I'd rather stick to actual news, which happens to be my job, and leave the sensationalism and conspiracy theorizing to others.

By the way, "skepticism" doesn't mean "ignoring what a developer that obviously know a lot better than I do says due to mere personal perception based on absolutely no fact." which is what you and some others around here are doing. 

In my experience talking to developers of all ranks directly on a daily bases from small one-man addon developers for flight simulators to game directors of massive AAA games for 20+ years, Randazzo's reasoning is 100% sound and in line with what I would expect from an employer who doesn't want to find himself with an irremediably burned out team following a period of extended crunch, which incidentally is a large problem in the industry. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Abriael

[ShawnG 1,823]

at what point did I argue with you about the timetable?  whether the 700 releases first or the 800 instead makes no difference to whether he can get his guys a break or not in between.  and even then, that's not my issue.  other than that, I've said my piece and it stands.  there are many shades of gray as concerns the public statements of Mr. Randazzo over the years.  do with that what you will.

[honanhal 1,420]

1 hour ago, ShawnG said:

There very well, COULD be a legit reason it is released this way, but it might also be purely for cash grab reasons, and just because the cap'n says otherwise doesn't really mean it isn't.

This is well said. It’s impossible for us to know for sure what’s behind this timetable, of course, but I’m puzzled by the folks here insisting it is *unthinkable* it represents an attempt to sell more of the less popular variants.

Would that be a war crime? No. PMDG is within their rights to play these games, just as I’m within my rights to roll my eyes at what my instincts (and experience) tell me is a disingenuous hand-waving explanation from RSR.

[Christopher Low 5,353]

Even if this is a marketing strategy to sell more copies (of the 700 at least), the decision to purchase is entirely with the customer. It is not PMDG's problem if you are unable to resist the temptation to purchase a product that you do not really want.

[Abriael 952]

19 minutes ago, honanhal said:

This is well said. It’s impossible for us to know for sure what’s behind this timetable, of course, but I’m puzzled by the folks here insisting it is *unthinkable* it represents an attempt to sell more of the less popular variants.

There's a large difference between saying it's *unthinkable* and explaining it's speculation with no basis in fact. What you just did is called a strawman argument. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Abriael

[Bdub22 1,611]

Gaslighting? We’ve brought gaslighting into this? As mentioned above, PMDG has stated why they’re releasing the birds in this order and it seems totally understandable. If some of you guys think it’s a cash-grab because you can’t wait a few weeks to get the product you want, then someone else should be holding onto your credit cards. It’s comical people think they’re being gaslighted. 

[Abriael 952]

2 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Gaslighting? We’ve brought gaslighting into this? As mentioned above, PMDG has stated why they’re releasing the birds in this order and it seems totally understandable. If some of you guys think it’s a cash-grab because you can’t wait a few weeks to get the product you want, then someone else should be holding onto your credit cards. It’s comical people think they’re being gaslighted. 

yeah, the overdramatizing from some is really funny, when you see terms like "gaslighting" or "preposterous" statements, you know someone's taking themselves way too seriously.

[simon747 185]

Based on the podcast, it sounds like the decision to release the -700 first is due to technical reasons and from a coding development standpoint (-700 as a base code platform) and the other models will have layers of code modifications for their individual attributes.  If they were develop the -800 first it would be counterproductive as they would be working backwards from a coding perspective in how they are doing it.  Longer timeframe for release and not logical for their development pathway. 

I will happily fly any of them.  Most pilots have said once in the cockpit, the stretched versions or shortened versions, 738/736/ 321/319 make less difference once in the cockpit.

Well done PMDG for a good podcast.

[wiler 394]

not sure why people moan.   PMDG is in the game to make a profit.  Giving you the 800 first would be bad business , wouldn't it?  It would mean most mainstream flightsimming people would buy that and not buy the rest.  Releasing the 700 first is smart because most people are literally dying for a decent airliner in this sim and will buy it even if its not the variant they REALLY want.  Personally, I don't care that much, its a game at the end of the day . I will buy the 700(I want a decent airliner already) and none of the rest because the slight differences between variants means nada to me.   Those people who HAVE to have the 800 can wait and bypass the 700, and need to wait a couple months to get it, it seems fair to me. I am waiting to see pricing before I make up my mind about PMDGs approach. If the base pack is around 60-80 bucks and the others are 30-40 each I wouldnt be against it. 

[rick celik 1,243]

15 minutes ago, wiler said:

not sure why people moan.   PMDG is in the game to make a profit.  Giving you the 800 first would be bad business , wouldn't it?  It would mean most mainstream flightsimming people would buy that and not buy the rest.  Releasing the 700 first is smart because most people are literally dying for a decent airliner in this sim and will buy it even if its not the variant they REALLY want.  Personally, I don't care that much, its a game at the end of the day . I will buy the 700(I want a decent airliner already) and none of the rest because the slight differences between variants means nada to me.   Those people who HAVE to have the 800 can wait and bypass the 700, and need to wait a couple months to get it, it seems fair to me. I am waiting to see pricing before I make up my mind about PMDGs approach. If the base pack is around 60-80 bucks and the others are 30-40 each I wouldnt be against it. 

Yeah agreed, I find in the Flight Sim world some people tend to think developers are out here doing NFP Charity work. Business is business. 

And for the people who believe the narrative, I can almost guarantee, if they wanted the 800 out first they would've done it... Technical reasons.. hehe. The real question is, why didn't they work on the 800 first to release first. 

I'm not complaining though, I'm in it for the Aussie and Turkish airlines so the 700 will be fine. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Ridvan Celik

[abrams_tank 7,419]

What the others have said. I don't mind waiting an extra 12 weeks for the 800 variant.  We have waited almost 2 years already, what's an additional 12 weeks?

Having said that, PMDG is a business.  Like others have said, they are not a charity.  From a business perspective, of course it makes sense to release the 600 variant before the 800 variant. The only thing that could change this calculus for PMDG is if the Maddog or Fenix A320 were being released earlier, if PMDG is worried an early release of the Maddog or Fenix A320 can disrupt their 737 sales.

[Brandon01110 407]

On 4/9/2022 at 1:04 AM, Bdub22 said:

You really can't base frustration on the fact that you'll only have to wait a few weeks longer for the plane you actually want to purchase. 

a few?  most will want the 800 variant.  that equates to 12 weeks (3 months).  That is far from a few.  Im probably in the same boat and will buy the 700 to cure the itch and then the preferred variant when released.