1 hour ago, Mace said:

Rob Young was just today described as "having total disdain for MSFS"

I said that because his comments on MSFS are always very negative. It's not personal and I love his work. I was just calling it as many of us have seen on this forum. 

No positive changes I could see. 🙄

For what it's worth, the WU's are really nice but they add only something to the graphical part. VR is for the most people not relevant. We all know that some thinhs were dumbed down. Asobo might be great game designers, but Rob Young joined avsim in 2003 as I can see from his profile and is probably even longer in the flight sim scene. Asobo was founded in 2002 according to wikipedia, but since when are they working on MSFS? While the membership in a forum doesn't tell anything about one's competence - if Rob points out to issues, by reading his posts I would assume he is right and I would like to have them first solved, instead of adding new graphical wow's.
But I'm afraid, FS will be devloped for higher XBox sales instead of developing it to a really good flight sim. MS wants primarily high sales figures (that's no secret) and as far as I understand they abandoned FSX for getting higher sales with MS Flight - which was intended for the casual gamer, i.e. higher sales figures.

Everybody is raving about how graphically superior this simulator is and that argument is used to snuff every other criticism concerning the parts that are not of the same quality.

What I cannot understand is insisting that all the development is done by Asobo. Why on earth, for those parts that are so flightsim specific, you dont outsource to "mission specialists"?

The proof that parts that were outsourced work great (MeteoBlue, Blackshark, Working Title) should reinforce the descision to pass the development of segments like FM, AI, ATC, VR to  3rd party 

Is it the question of dough, security, control,  Asobo agrreement or whatever else, the decision to keep all in house is simply wrong. Time and quality wise.

Development outsourced: 

You profit - people see that sim is moving towards being  ALL AROUND better, you crush competition and sales pitch.

Talented developers profit  - they get the opportunity to rise some serious cash and really show their potential

Users profit - sim  has lived up to its initial goal to be both eye pleasant and serious. 

Edited April 13, 20224 yr by versus

37 minutes ago, versus said:

Everybody is raving about how graphically superior this simulator is and that argument is used to snuff every other criticism concerning the parts that are not of the same quality.

What I cannot understand is insisting that all the development is done by Asobo. Why on earth, for those parts that are so flightsim specific, you dont outsource to "mission specialists"?

The proof that parts that were outsourced work great (MeteoBlue, Blackshark, Working Title) should reinforce the descision to pass the development of segments like FM, AI, ATC, VR to  3rd party 

Is it the question of dough, security, control,  Asobo agrreement or whatever else, the decision to keep all in house is simply wrong. Time and quality wise.

Development outsourced: 

You profit - people see that sim is moving towards being  ALL AROUND better, you crush competition and sales pitch.

Talented developers profit  - they get the opportunity to rise some serious cash and really show their potential

Users profit - sim  has lived up to its initial goal to be both eye pleasant and serious. 

You may (or may not) be absolutely right in everything you say. But it matters not to me. All I know is that this sim -- for less than it takes to fill my gas tank a couple of times -- is a fantastic achievement that goes well beyond anything I ever imagined I  would see in a flight simulator. Arguments over who did what, and when, I am happy to leave to others while I fly!

8 minutes ago, cobalt said:

You may (or may not) be absolutely right in everything you say. But it matters not to me. All I know is that this sim -- for less than it takes to fill my gas tank a couple of times -- is a fantastic achievement that goes well beyond anything I ever imagined I  would see in a flight simulator. Arguments over who did what, and when, I am happy to leave to others while I fly!

Spot on.

There's an old cliche that still holds true, "Preaching to the choir".  A Priest walks out on Sunday and sees a mostly empty church, and then proceeds to lecture the handful who did show up about how more people need to attend. 

I know Asobo mentioned once that they read something here, but I'm guessing they are not frequently reading here (if I'm wrong, let me know).  So, when people complain, they are complaining at their fellow simmers, not Asobo. 

It isn't a problem that people are critical, but the fact that these complains are aimed at each other.  Being grumpy on the internet is not going to get the game changed any faster.  This happens all over video gaming on every message board out there, so it isn't at all a "here" problem.  We're in the era of the live service game whether we want it or not, and feedback is a big part of that.  Complaints are inevitable. 

Now, bug reports are always useful.  We need to split the bugs from the things we're doing wrong, or the things not working properly on our system.  For people that have fundamental problems with how things are handled, that's fair.  To be honest though, it isn't something I need to have preached to me in nearly every thread.  I've uninstalled any other sim and MSFS 2020 is all I have now.  I'm sticking with it because it is the right sim for me right now.  If it isn't right for you, there are alternatives.

Flight simming is a hobby for me.  I'm not a real pilot and probably will never find the time and money, so this is just for fun.  Most importantly, remember preaching to the choir and remember who your words are reaching, and more importantly, who they are NOT reaching. 

14 minutes ago, kerosene31 said:

I know Asobo mentioned once that they read something here, but I'm guessing they are not frequently reading here (if I'm wrong, let me know). 

I had this in mind. Not that I think it wiould  be any  better if I addressed them directly.

More like seeking from someone to explain why I am being so naive that it seems logical.

Maybe its just trivial. Sim is selling well ...no point in engaging in dubious efforts. No rush. Asobo will figure it out eventually, and even if they don't, whiners have already paid for it.

I've probably flown at least 600 hours in that time.  MSFS just keeps on giving and being retired I'm glad for that.

ns

4 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

But I'm afraid, FS will be devloped for higher XBox sales instead of developing it to a really good flight sim.

This is a massive fiction put forth by a few people who can't see the forest for the trees.  Guess what:  it's already a really, really good flight sim!

52 minutes ago, kerosene31 said:

I know Asobo mentioned once that they read something here, but I'm guessing they are not frequently reading here (if I'm wrong, let me know).  So, when people complain, they are complaining at their fellow simmers, not Asobo. 

You are certainly right here. A couple of times they mentioned having read something on AVSIM but as far as I recall these referred to @ChaoticBeauty's mirrors of their Development Updates which they may have eyed. According to what I take from the Mods of the Official Forum, they don't even scan that one regularly but mostly rely on what the Community Managers / Mods transfer to them.

Of course no one can tell what they do privately / in their spare time.

We may or may like this but it's certainly this way. That's why I always suggest posting issues on the Official Forum, preferred in the voting threads which are classified and submitted to the devs.

Kind regards, Michael

17 minutes ago, pmb said:

You are certainly right here. A couple of times they mentioned having read something on AVSIM but as far as I recall these referred to @ChaoticBeauty's mirrors of their Development Updates which they may have eyed. According to what I take from the Mods of the Official Forum, they don't even scan that one regularly but mostly rely on what the Community Managers / Mods transfer to them.

Of course no one can tell what they do privately / in their spare time.

We may or may like this but it's certainly this way. That's why I always suggest posting issues on the Official Forum, preferred in the voting threads which are classified and submitted to the devs.

Kind regards, Michael

Yup.  The best way to get the attention of Microsoft/Asobo is to get threads upvoted.  This means the threads that can be upvoted in the Wishlist and Bugs forums, the topics for the monthly Twitch Q&A which can be upvoted, and the topics for the SDK Q&A which can receive likes.  I don't think Microsoft/Asobo spend much time at Avsim.

Edited April 13, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

2 hours ago, versus said:

What I cannot understand is insisting that all the development is done by Asobo.

You actually believe the game developer with allegedly no experience in flight simulation got this far with no outside consultation?   If so it's beyond remarkable where it's come to thus far.  Where did you get this statement from presented as uncontestable fact? 

You started this thread w/ the claim nothing meaningful has really changed since launch, and hopefully you read enough to realize that claim is nonsense.  Since that argument failed you've changed the argument now to something entirely different, but essentially have remained negative.  What is your agenda anyway?

I stopped complaining approximately 6 months after this sim dropped for the following reasons.

1. If its a bug that's generally bad enough to be worth a patch they will patch it.

2. if its a feature worthy enough of the userbase to demand it they will pay attention and at least tell you why they can or cannot do it

3. This is not medical grade or mission critical software or even completely finished boxed software a la FS 2004 (the area i work in and projected my expectations unfortunately to the developers initially)

4. I have yet to see any large sim/game (whatever you want to call it) developer provide as much feedback and transparency (within reason)... yeah they wont tell you much bad news ill give you that but you can use the QA sessions and Feedback posts to get a general gist as to their approach and feeling on issues.

5. We are privy to the public facing items on their roadmap. Not all the items on it.

6. It is pointless to complain about an issue that they said they will fix in due course because it isn't fixed immediately

7. The code is not brand new and as a result it has limitations that require extensive rewrites or adjustments

8. Above all If there is an issue in the sim that i personally deem is a showstopper for me . I find something else to do. Whether its not using the sim completely when they had screwed with the weather and jets could not pass a certain altitude or flying at night when the LOD and trees were borked.

 

Are there certain ahem areas where i feel they fall down on ? Most certainly ... QA and the ability to put an update on hold when a particularly egregious bug is discovered. But in my opinion with the beta they seem to be making a genuine attempt at rectifying this particular issue.

 

I also feel that because this is Avsim some are very oblivious to the importance of having this sim be accessible to new people to at least try out on the console. Will some try it for one day and not buy anything in the marketplace? Sure.. But i think the general Avsimmer who has been simming since the old days of sublogic/ fs98 on up need to be aware that this sim no longer exclusively dedicated to the PC long term simmer. Does that mean the sim is useless for the PC simmer and they are ignoring us? Absolutely not but expectations and timelines for your own wishes must be kept in check because other development items that may not be of interest to you (but may be of interest to a different group requires attention).

I completely understand that for some of the purists the flight dynamics/ weather/ performance etc is not how they would like it but The devs are not going to drop their other projects to work on this issue exclusively. I feel it will see ongoing improvements as time passes and there is feedback from the userbase. Again this is not a static release and i think the sim can satisfy all users eventually. But this requires time and patience.

 

Edited April 13, 20224 yr by Maxis

31 minutes ago, Noel said:

You actually believe the game developer with allegedly no experience in flight simulation got this far with no outside consultation?   If so it's beyond remarkable where it's come to thus far.  Where did you get this statement from presented as uncontestable fact? 

You started this thread w/ the claim nothing meaningful has really changed since launch, and hopefully you read enough to realize that claim is nonsense.  Since that argument failed you've changed the argument now to something entirely different, but essentially have remained negative.  What is your agenda anyway?

Seems like he is just trying to sir up hate and discontent, and it's not working. 

Edited April 13, 20224 yr by Bobsk8