1 hour ago, mrueedi said:

XP is nowhere near "there already".

RIiiiight,

Thats why many thousands of professional aviators all over the globe are using XP for real world training, currency and aircraft development - even done a little consultancy with one myself in recent years.

And

MSFS cannot legally be used for real world training anywhere in the world and is a million miles off being a good choice for simulating even well understood simple aircraft.

1 hour ago, mrueedi said:

Every square meter of terrain along the route represents reality as realistic as any other. This is groundbreaking.

All its missing is any aviation related infrastructure (unless you buy them separately), nothing important for a flight simulator right 🤣

Keep trying, at least you should be able to maintain the illusion for another 6 months or so... 

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by mSparks

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

RIiiiight

You are changing the topic...

9 minutes ago, mSparks said:

No All its missing is any aviation related infrastructure is missing (unless you dont have to buy them separately),

Please, I have corrected your wrong statement for you...

39 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

You are changing the topic...

Please, I have corrected your wrong statement for you...

This is one of my key waypoints when flying,

https://goo.gl/maps/UFZUCMBzbQ3SZW2k9

generally out of ATC radio contact, often its not transmitting, my "I know 100% exactly where I am" waypoints, coming into or exiting the mountainous area just south of Valjevo (generally on the way to or back from Kapoanik or Zlatibor) 

Its "perfect" in XP, I don't believe it exists in MSFS, love to see a SS if you think I'm wrong - then I'll have one less thing to complain about.

My bet would be the mighty blackshark AI just covered the entire area in nothing but monotonous trees.

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by mSparks

I believe when the discussion is between users or add on developers of multi sim platforms who happen to comment on and compare scenery technology and a user who belongs to the circle of one of those sim companies, then we can say that the connection and discussion will never be healthy and logical...

As for the monotonous trees, I look forward to seeing XP12 3D tree tech how it will render dense forests...

EDIT: 

Speaking of 3D trees, I tried this App to see if one can create custom tree types for sim scenery but did not try to export and implement it yet:
https://www.evolved-software.com/treeit/treeit

 

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by Claviateur

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

This is one of my key waypoints when flying,

https://goo.gl/maps/UFZUCMBzbQ3SZW2k9

generally out of ATC radio contact, often its not transmitting, my "I know 100% exactly where I am" waypoints, coming into or exiting the mountainous area just south of Valjevo (generally on the way to or back from Kapoanik or Zlatibor) 

Its "perfect" in XP, I don't believe it exists in MSFS, love to see a SS if you think I'm wrong - then I'll have one less thing to complain about.

My bet would be the mighty blackshark AI just covered the entire area in nothing but monotonous trees.

As strange as it may sound, I'm actually very interested in these endless discussions about the technologies and assets of XP or MSFS.

I know there's a lot of trolling going on, but nevertheless there are quite a few nice technical details sometimes.

Concerning this navaid, I took a few minutes to check in MSFS:

- The navaid is there, I mean MSFS knows about this VOR. It can also be selected from the main map when creating a flight.

- The structure appears on the ground in flight, thanks to the ortho textures

- There are no dedicated 3D objects for it, though. In vanilla XP (without addons like XEurope for example), does it appear?

- The trees are anything but "monotonous" 😉

 

Here is how it looks like from the flight-creation map in the main menu:

 

And here is how it looks like from the cockpit:

19 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

I believe when the discussion is between users or add on developers of multi sim platforms who happen to comment on and compare scenery technology and a user who belongs to the circle of one of those sim companies, then we can say that the connection and discussion will never be healthy and logical...

As for the monotonous trees, I look forward to seeing XP12 3D tree tech how it will render dense forests...

This has nothing to do with "being" in Laminars circle for me, and everything to do with getting there from:

to

And you lot talking about how great the scenery in msfs is, when it is obviously missing pretty much every 3D building related to aviation.

e.g.

10 minutes ago, Daube said:

As strange as it may sound, I'm actually very interested in these endless discussions about the technologies and assets of XP or MSFS.

I know there's a lot of trolling going on, but nevertheless there are quite a few nice technical details sometimes.

Concerning this navaid, I took a few minutes to check in MSFS:

- The navaid is there, I mean MSFS knows about this VOR. It can also be selected from the main map when creating a flight.

- The structure appears on the ground in flight, thanks to the ortho textures

- There are no dedicated 3D objects for it, though. In vanilla XP (without addons like XEurope for example), does it appear?

- The trees are anything but "monotonous" 😉

 

Here is how it looks like from the flight-creation map in the main menu:

 

And here is how it looks like from the cockpit:

(yes, vanilla XP11 has pretty much every aviation/VRP related 3D building in its library, with most of the others rounded of by a few downloads from an army of people who have been working on it for years, most of whom actually fly irl so know/knew what is missing)

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by mSparks

😅

 Is it a VOR installation that is missing? NDB? Antenna? 

Shame on them...

But as someone who uses XP11, it has much less airfields and airports worldwide than MSFS? Out of the box? I mean the places where an aircraft lands in areas outside major countries and cities... For people who do not live in the US let's say?

I like it when the discussion is informational but It is constantly turning into this:

As I wrote in my message above, the VOR is there, it is both visible in the sim navaids and on the ground textures.

However, it has no dedicated 3D object, which means that without the orthotextures, we would not be able to "see" it in flight.

1 hour ago, mSparks said:

generally out of ATC radio contact, often its not transmitting, my "I know 100% exactly where I am" waypoints, coming into or exiting the mountainous area just south of Valjevo (generally on the way to or back from Kapoanik or Zlatibor) 

Whats wrong with the depiction of the VOR for your purposes as shown in Daube's post?

Poor VFR pilot, if navigation outbound from Kapoanik depends on the presence of a VOR 3D model 120km away...

Well, a lot of the discussions here are about small details that, in the end, greatly add to the sim experience.

But ok, without being too much optimistic, the most important thing is that the VOR actually exists in the sim. There is already a freeware mod that adds 3D objects for navaids in MSFS around airports, so another mod could be created to add them worldwide.

It's exactly the same with powerlines for example. In XP11 they appear by default, and they are based on OSM data or something equivalent. In MSFS these were missing, but nowadays we get them everywhere with a freeware mod. So it's easy to imagine same could be done for VOR or other kind of navaids, at some point.

12 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

Whats wrong with the depiction of the VOR for your purposes as shown in Daube's post?

Poor VFR pilot, if navigation outbound from Kapoanik depends on the presence of a VOR 3D model 120km away...

This is the sad part of the whole thing... Whatever the product I prefer to use does not have is Ok but a tiny thing that is missing in the product I don't like is a big deal...

Many airfields in XP11 are missing and many have only a runway... No way to taxi out of the runway... That is more important than a 3D VOR installation I suppose

Many additional packages add a huge amount of details to XP11 empty landscape in areas outside major cities / US that are not there out of the box...

Same for MS Sim... I tried a few as well and they add a lot of VFR details to the landscape

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by Claviateur

17 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

Poor VFR pilot, if navigation outbound from Kapoanik depends on the presence of a VOR 3D model 120km away.

No, its because its a "unique" structure that stands out when you are 3nm away and visibility is 3nm. One church/village/road looks much like any other, VORs and NDBs are one of the few VRPs you cant mistake.

I just checked and even XP mobile has them

This is the stuff where RL flight experience of the developers really really makes the difference. No moving map, GPS not allowed - or e.g. if simulating flying a spitfire flight, didn't exist/isnt fitted, when you have to execute a precisely planned flight and getting it wrong at best costs a thousand dollars plus in reorientation time, or worst case ends up with you and you passengers dying because you got properly lost.

Admittedly with helicopters you can actually stop and ask for directions or pull up at a gas station to refuel.

Planes not so much.

 

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by mSparks

4 hours ago, mrueedi said:

The ai processing run is massive Azure stuff.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. Your original statement was a bit misleading without this explanation. It runs in minutes (or real time, apparently) on thousands of compute nodes. 

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

No, its because its a "unique" structure that stands out when you are 3nm away and visibility is 3nm. One church/village/road looks much like any other, VORs and NDBs are one of the few VRPs you cant mistake.

I just checked and even XP mobile has them

 

Ok so the VOR is the only VFR reference that missing in XP11 world for VFR pilots to navigate, worldwide? Otherwise they have all the other references? 

In other words XP11 is a VFR platform?

Note that I would ask the same thing about FSX or any previous gen sim platform, out of the box...