Lost performance after SU9 update.

[Noel 4,499]

1 minute ago, odourboy said:

Look, if you're not seeing this issue and you don't believe the 'fix' provides any relief to those of us who have it, why are you here denigrating our efforts?

Just trying to separate signal from noise, and there is so much noise, that's all.  Hey, you tried it and it helped.  Now go fly a whole bunch more and see if it still helps.  Having done this for 30y plus now the number of times fixes start out as magic end up being forgotten because it turns out it was...something else...

[odourboy 1,289]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Just trying to separate signal from noise, and there is so much noise, that's all.  Hey, you tried it and it helped.  Now go fly a whole bunch more and see if it still helps.  Having done this for 30y plus now the number of times fixes start out as magic end up being forgotten because it turns out it was...something 

Oh jeez. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such wisdom. We're not worthy!

[Noel 4,499]

6 minutes ago, odourboy said:

Oh jeez. I didn't realize I was in the presence of such wisdom. We're not worthy!

Oh come on really.  Report back after a few days and see if it still holds up for you and I hope it does.

[Noel 4,499]

1 hour ago, odourboy said:

There's no reason that photogrammetry in Lisbon should kill my frame rates on the tarmac in LAX, but it does. And removing them fixed it

Perhaps it's a memory leak of sorts--should be exceedingly simple to troubleshoot and hopefully simple to solve.  

[TravelRunner404 596]

15 minutes ago, Noel said:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/617846-what-settings-do-you-use-to-reach-the-holy-grail-of-msfs/?do=findComment&comment=4757628

Got it, and it makes sense what you are doing.  You are manipulating Terrain LOD to fix your low FPS problem into big cities.  That's certainly one way to go about it and it's your flight sim experience.  Terrain LOD is a known and understood CPU hog.  However, there is no reason to lower your terrain LOD to 120 to stay above 30 even landing a KJFK, especially with your specs.  The photogrammetry cities small files are likely costing you a lot of performance that requires you to drop your terrain LOD to 120.  Do you have a bunch of AIG? I don't know.  That's another performance hog so you could easily keep your VSYNC at 30, delete all the files, ramp up your terrain LOD then land with a bunch of flightsim.to files and AIG traffic and say, see, I didn't hold a solid 30 FPS, it went up and down, so the fix does nothing.  But that's certainly adding a lot of noise to the data.  Nobody is saying it will fix every issue in the simulator as it relates to performance and your personal view of performance. 

What it will do, if you have all world updates installed, is drastically improve the performance on the ground at airports close to photogrammetry cities.  This is well tested in the US.  The "bug" of sorts, hammers the main thread in those situations and many people are lowering their terrain LOD to get that performance back and suspecting it's the CPU intensive terrain LOD.  The fix will take load off the CPU.  A significant amount.  That's it.  It won't magically spawn a 60 FPS PMDG 777 at the gate for you to fly and it won't produce 90 FPS Ultra 400/200 on someone's 3700x/1080ti.  It's not magic, nor claims to be.

[TravelRunner404 596]

For anyone interested here is the initial post where they started to figure it out over at MS Forums.  This 'fix' has been working since November/December 2021. 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/poor-performance-on-the-ground/450221/410

[Noel 4,499]

You've come up with a plausible explanation for why I have no performance issues whereas some w/ lesser hardware do, so it's worth testing and should be immediately easy to assess.  And if it turns out to be validated should be very easy to troubleshoot and resolve by Asobo since they know the files involved, and it implies a substantial performance gain for everyone when it's solved.  Sounds a lot like a memory leak of sorts to me.  Thanks for the follow up--I will give it a whirl and we'll see if the logic holds...

I'm confused on one thing:  I'm not seeing one specific for US cities-is the GOTY one US cities? So if I test in a US airport I uninstall all 3D PG except GOTY?

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by Noel

[TravelRunner404 596]

19 minutes ago, Noel said:

I'm confused on one thing:  I'm not seeing one specific for US cities-is the GOTY one US cities? So if I test in a US airport I uninstall all 3D PG except GOTY?

 

I have uninstalled all 7. GOTY photogrammetry cities are all in the nordics I believe. The actual US photogrammetry visuals aren’t affected by any of the files. Hope it helps!

[TravelRunner404 596]

Delete double post

Edited April 28, 2022 by TravelRunner404
Double post

[Noel 4,499]

It seems like you are saying it's really PG cities period.  So once again, we're only saying PG incurs serious CPU load so okay, yes I suppose it does.  What is this other issue about uninstalling all but the location you're in?

The first test I did just now was at EDDF in the B87X HD at a specific gate and time of day.  You did not read this in the link of how I configure the sim, but this began with me noticing the MainThread in ms reported thru Dev Mode.  I have described this in detail but the short version is:  I really need to see MTms no more than 21-22 maximum AND, I adjust T-LOD to a few less than that when the arrival airport is more demanding than departure airport--that's it in a nutshell.

So my first test appears to be not encouraging.  I ended up uninstalling all EXCEPT Germany 3D PG cities, assuming I could leave that, and uninstalling all others would have an impact.  There was ZERO IMPROVEMENT in MTms by doing this test, then repeating the same test only with all 3D PG cities reinstalled.  In both situations it took dialing T-LOD down to 110 or so to see MTms ~=20ms.  At T-LOD 200 MTms was approaching 29ms in both scenarios.

[jer2929 90]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Perhaps it's a memory leak of sorts--should be exceedingly simple to troubleshoot and hopefully simple to solve.  

I, along with others, have now been doing this for the past 3 or 4 world updates. So it's about 6 months. A few of the guys on the forum meticulously test and report their findings. It's definitive. Does it work for everyone? No. Why? Who knows. Does it work for a lot of ppl? Yes. How many? Who knows. Does it happen everywhere in the world? Hard to tell. North America and especially around airports surrounded by photogrammrtry? Absolutely. This isn't something new. We've been talking about this issue for months and months. I think you should be glad we've separated the noise from the signal. Do we know why it happens? No, but that's not our job anyway 

[jer2929 90]

46 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

For anyone interested here is the initial post where they started to figure it out over at MS Forums.  This 'fix' has been working since November/December 2021. 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/poor-performance-on-the-ground/450221/410

That's me! I'm punchdckns99. Legendary Canadian aviator 🙂

[jer2929 90]

9 minutes ago, Noel said:

It seems like you are saying it's really PG cities period.  So once again, we're only saying PG incurs serious CPU load so okay, yes I suppose it does.  What is this other issue about uninstalling all but the location you're in?

The first test I did just now was at EDDF in the B87X HD at a specific gate and time of day.  You did not read this in the link of how I configure the sim, but this began with me noticing the MainThread in ms reported thru Dev Mode.  I have described this in detail but the short version is:  I really need to see MTms no more than 21-22 maximum AND, I adjust T-LOD to a few less than that when the arrival airport is more demanding than departure airport--that's it in a nutshell.

So my first test appears to be not encouraging.  I ended up uninstalling all EXCEPT Germany 3D PG cities, assuming I could leave that, and uninstalling all others would have an impact.  There was ZERO IMPROVEMENT in MTms by doing this test, then repeating the same test only with all 3D PG cities reinstalled.  In both situations it took dialing T-LOD down to 110 or so to see MTms ~=20ms.  At T-LOD 200 MTms was approaching 29ms in both scenarios.

You must restart the Sim after uninstalling the cities. Installing does not require restart. This was determined during our testing 

[KKLEE 9]

I did a trial flight over Tokyo and experienced a little stuttering.
FPS dropped momentarily from 30 to 27 even to 21.  Not happened before.

I also observed that the CPU and GPU utilization rates increased significantly as compared to pre SU 9.

I changed the volumetric cloud setting from ULTRA to HIGH.  It seemed that everything went back to normal (pre SU 9).
Could it be related to the weather/cloud after SU 9? 
I may be wrong.  Just my two cents.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by KKLEE

[MrBitstFlyer 3,873]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Just trying to separate signal from noise, and there is so much noise, that's all.  Hey, you tried it and it helped.  Now go fly a whole bunch more and see if it still helps.  Having done this for 30y plus now the number of times fixes start out as magic end up being forgotten because it turns out it was...something else...

Oh yes, that is so true!  I must resist the next tweak, I must resist - word not allowed, I applied the tweak 😂