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Ray Proudfoot

Great weather east of Jersey, CI

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12 minutes ago, Rogen said:

Ooo... that's actually a shot from v4.5, taken last night when I loaded my Ayers Rock rainy day weather.

Ah sorry. Plus ORBX Aus I assume.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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Ray, comments like this are what get people chuffed some times. 

Quote

 "I couldn’t even consider using it for serious IFR flights unless it was available."   

Poor choice of words,, my personal opinion is: maybe you can't do "your" flights with the Concorde where you want very specific conditions but to insinuate you can't do serious IFR flights without historical weather it is flat out inaccurate.  To also start a thread just to take a backhanded swipe at historical weather in the other sim is just not what I'd be expecting out of a mod.   It's also been covered that what appear to be the vast majority of AS users even those doing long haul have only ever used in real time live weather mode.  Myself included and that's doing KEWR-LLBG, KEWR-YSSY so the weather may not be accurate when I arrive to the time of day but it is accurate to the metar and to imply that does not equal a "serious IFR flight" is actually insulting.  

Oh, and I'm not talking about MSFS now, I'm talking about every IFR flight I've done in P3D which you claim "are not serious" or in your other post in the MSFS forums  "doesn't sound realistic to you..."   So you post in the MSFS forum that MSFS is unrealistic without historical weather, then post here you can't do serious IFR without it with a screenshot in the P3D forums just to take a backhanded swipe at those in the other camp.

Things that me me go hmmmm...  Funny I thought mods were supposed to diffuse situations not stir them up and stoke the flames...   

Edited by psolk
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-Paul Solk

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No need to be sorry, just pointing out v4.5 can look pretty reasonable overall, and yep some is Orbx.

I do have v5 however my initial investigations haven't shown anything really worthwhile, for myself at least.

Maybe LM will start putting some graphical effort in now that there is real competition, they earn enough from mil and commercial sales to affort to invest a few million back into it.

Cheers

 


Ryzen 5800X clocked to 4.7 Ghz (SMT off), 32 GB ram, Samsung 1 x 1 TB NVMe 970, 2 x 1 TB SSD 850 Pro raided, Asus Tuf 3080Ti

P3D 4.5.14, Orbx Global, Vector and more, lotsa planes too.

Catch my vids on Oz Sim Pilot, catch my screen pics @ Screenshots and Prepar3D

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4 minutes ago, psolk said:

That's utterly ludicrous.  Maybe you can't do "your" flights with the Concorde where you want very specific conditions but to insinuate you can't do serious IFR flights without historical weather it is flat out inaccurate.

If that comment was directed at another member for expresing his opinion I would have taken action. What right have you to tell me what I consider important in a sim? It's my opinion which I'm perfectly entitled to. If you disagree that's fine but don't tell me my view is "ludicrous".

I didn't say ALL IFR flights. Just those involving departing from airports in time zones many hours away from my own. I don't want to fly with night time weather for a daytime flight.

I have nothing further to say to you. Your post has seriously annoyed me.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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38 minutes ago, Rogen said:

No need to be sorry, just pointing out v4.5 can look pretty reasonable overall, and yep some is Orbx.

I do have v5 however my initial investigations haven't shown anything really worthwhile, for myself at least.

Maybe LM will start putting some graphical effort in now that there is real competition, they earn enough from mil and commercial sales to affort to invest a few million back into it.

Cheers

 

I too waited and waited to move from 4.5 to 5.3 and can absolutely say it is far superior graphically even with less required add-ons.  LM did a significant upgrade from 4.5 to 5.3....  Performance, graphics and even the data sources all seem to be improved... I just moved a couple of months ago as well, like you 4.5 was SOOO stable and looked fine for me I had no "need" to move but 5.3 is a significant not even just a minor step forward....  Takes some tweaking with EA etc but it is well worth it, 5.x is visually superior and performs better than 4.5.  Just my .02 🙂

@Ray, I changed the choice of words, ludicrous was a poor choice of words on my part to describe someone else's opinion.  Noted, changed and apologies. Also, realism is in the eye of the beholder, if you went to a full motion sim and they "made up" a weather scenario for training purposes and it's no longer "real historical weather" is the IFR training any less realistic?  Of course not.  So going to the MSFS forum and stating "it doesn't sound realistic to you" then coming back here to start a thread to take a backhanded swipe does nothing for the community but create further animosity.  

As I mentioned, I don't feel my flights are "unrealistic" or "can't be serious IFR" even over long distances with varying time changes because I don't use historical weather which is what you imply with your comment. (And that's in P3D where I us AS in real time live weather mode only) 

Edited by psolk

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-Paul Solk

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2 minutes ago, psolk said:

I too waited and waited to move from 4.5 to 5.3 and can absolutely say it is far superior graphically even with less required add-ons.  LM did a significant upgrade from 4.5 to 5.3....  Performance, graphics and even the data sources all seem to be improved...

The thing is I'm just not seeing it side by side, although I will admit the move to linear lighting is an improvement, however the LM crew seem to sort of half implement a feature and then move on, end result is a somewhat half baked feature giving technical rights to say it's in the product, like speed trees for example.

Sure they advance as versions release, although a snails pace is how I'd describe it and scenery wise they've done practically nothing other than slap a coat of paint over what essentually is still FSX's scenery and autogen.

Their commercial (as opposed to millitary) customers must be fuming given what MSFS looks like with its streaming scenery looking very realistic and attractive (prettiest girl syndrome).

And let's face it, P3D is the only product for commercial use, as MSFS not only doesn't have the licensing requirements, nor can it do senarios, or historical weather, just the sort of things needed for commercial use, and worst is the update requirement which would be a disaster if your commercial sim is fully booked for earning income only to be crashed out by a forced update.

Maybe one day MS will want a slice of the commercial sim market given the billions on offer, and the MSFS equivelent to ESP will be born, that'll probably be a great day if it ever happens because it would mean certification will have been reached.

Or maybe they'll just license out the streaming tech like the way they license Azure products.

Or maybe they won't do any of that at all, with MS you don't really know and in business it's all about the bottom line $$ and no matter what they say publicly, the bottom line is everything.

Cheers

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Ryzen 5800X clocked to 4.7 Ghz (SMT off), 32 GB ram, Samsung 1 x 1 TB NVMe 970, 2 x 1 TB SSD 850 Pro raided, Asus Tuf 3080Ti

P3D 4.5.14, Orbx Global, Vector and more, lotsa planes too.

Catch my vids on Oz Sim Pilot, catch my screen pics @ Screenshots and Prepar3D

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8 minutes ago, Rogen said:

The thing is I'm just not seeing it side by side, although I will admit the move to linear lighting is an improvement, however the LM crew seem to sort of half implement a feature and then move on, end result is a somewhat half baked feature giving technical rights to say it's in the product, like speed trees for example.

Sure they advance as versions release, although a snails pace is how I'd describe it and scenery wise they've done practically nothing other than slap a coat of paint over what essentually is still FSX's scenery and autogen.

Their commercial (as opposed to millitary) customers must be fuming given what MSFS looks like with its streaming scenery looking very realistic and attractive (prettiest girl syndrome).

And let's face it, P3D is the only product for commercial use, as MSFS not only doesn't have the licensing requirements, nor can it do senarios, or historical weather, just the sort of things needed for commercial use, and worst is the update requirement which would be a disaster if your commercial sim is fully booked for earning income only to be crashed out by a forced update.

Maybe one day MS will want a slice of the commercial sim market given the billions on offer, and the MSFS equivelent to ESP will be born, that'll probably be a great day if it ever happens because it would mean certification will have been reached.

Or maybe they'll just license out the streaming tech like the way they license Azure products.

Or maybe they won't do any of that at all, with MS you don't really know and in business it's all about the bottom line $$ and no matter what they say publicly, the bottom line is everything.

Cheers

It took me a few long hauls to really notice the difference between the two.   Not just visually but from a performance and data aggregation perspective as well.  With 5.x I could really start to crank the settings without the performance impacts in 4.x  

I agree with everything else you wrote as well.  Time will tell...  

Funny thing is I read about a new Police and Tactical response simulator being released to the Police for training.  They advertise they will even come and do a laser scan of your local area for realistic "localized" data and training. To your point, THAT is what the commercial market expects, not landclass and autogen anymore.  Laser scanned accuracy... 

Edited by psolk

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-Paul Solk

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2 hours ago, psolk said:

Poor choice of words,, my personal opinion is: maybe you can't do "your" flights with the Concorde where you want very specific conditions but to insinuate you can't do serious IFR flights without historical weather it is flat out inaccurate.

Bloody awful choice of words I would say! It's not inaccurate. It's a fact. If I want to depart Sydney at 10:00 local I have to use the weather for that time for an accurate flight. Otherwise the weather does not match what happened in the real world at that time. To get accurate weather I would have to load my sim at midnight my time for the weather to match. The only alternative is to use current weather which is not the weather for Sydney 10:00 local.

2 hours ago, psolk said:

To also start a thread just to take a backhanded swipe at historical weather in the other sim is just not what I'd be expecting out of a mod.

You've got a bloody cheek! First, I did not mention any other sim in my post yesterday. I stated a fact. P3D uses ASP3D which supports historical weather. Second, I posted as a standard user. Can you not differentiate between what a moderator posts and what a standard user does? It seems not. That's how you took my post because you're probably being defensive of MSFS.

2 hours ago, psolk said:

It's also been covered that what appear to be the vast majority of AS users even those doing long haul have only ever used in real time live weather mode.  Myself included and that's doing KEWR-LLBG, KEWR-YSSY so the weather may not be accurate when I arrive to the time of day but it is accurate to the metar and to imply that does not equal a "serious IFR flight" is actually insulting.  

Good Lord! Forgive me if I'm wrong but you live in New York so departing KEWR (Newark) is in your own time zone. So current weather is fine. AS updates the weather every 15 mins so the weather on arrival would have been correct.

2 hours ago, psolk said:

So you post in the MSFS forum that MSFS is unrealistic without historical weather, then post here you can't do serious IFR without it with a screenshot in the P3D forums just to take a backhanded swipe at those in the other camp.

Things that me me go hmmmm...  Funny I thought mods were supposed to diffuse situations not stir them up and stoke the flames...   

No, you're misquoting me for your own ends. I clearly stated that if I want to depart airports many time zones different to where I live and I want a daytime departure I have to compromise with incorrect weather because there's only live weather and nothing else.

Again, another mention of my moderator status. Give it a bloody rest Paul. I've been an AvSim member for many years and a mod for 18 months. Can't you understand mods have private lives and can post as standard users? Seemingly not.

I'm sick and tired of explaining why I cannot use MSFS for IFR flights departing well away from my time zone until historical weather is available.

So I'm going to turn the tables and give you a scenario and I want you to explain what you would do.

You have a flight departing Sydney at 10:00 local. That's around 15 hours ahead of NY time. You want to depart 10:00 your local time. You want the actual weather for the flight. How do you go about ensuring that happens?

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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45 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

So I'm going to turn the tables and give you a scenario and I want you to explain what you would do.

You have a flight departing Sydney at 10:00 local. That's around 15 hours ahead of NY time. You want to depart 10:00 your local time. You want the actual weather for the flight. How do you go about ensuring that happens?

I would load AS with Live weather and not think about it, the same thing I have done for my 25+ years of simming or at least since AS has been available.   That's it... I would get the weather that is currently in Sydney and that makes me more than happy even if it doesn't match what it "may" be 15 hours in the future.  That's what I would do.  

So shifting the weather from night to day is unrealistic to you but moving it one day to another is realistic despite it potentially not matching the weather at all?  As I have mentioned, I have always been more concerned with my weather matching the real world Metar at the current time than it matching my "flight time."    

Edit::

Also, you specifically said:

Quote

 "I couldn’t even consider using it for serious IFR flights unless it was available."   

So yes, this implies ALL IFR flights directly to which I responded.  You don't make any clarifications, nothing to do with me being defensive.  I simply responded a claim of not being able to do serious IFR without historical weather was "ludicrous" which it is unless you are referring to specific situations like the one described above.  Those are very different things.  

 

 

Edited by psolk

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-Paul Solk

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27 minutes ago, psolk said:

I would load AS with Live weather and not think about it, the same thing I have done for my 25+ years of simming

Different to me but unlike you I won't criticise you for doing things in a way that suits you.

I've nothing further to add to our discusssion.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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I think its interesting that Aus is being used as an example here, as there is also another argument in favour of historical weather in terms of the impact on operations and in particular the performance of your aircraft.

If you take off in a sweltering afternoon in Sydney, or another part of the world with hot summers/ ambient temperatures in general, that heat is going to have an effect on your aircraft performance.

In my case, a lot of my flights are long-haul cargo flights in a heavily-laden 747F, my takeoff performance is impacted and I have to unload some cargo to stay under my performance-limited MTOW, Hong Kong to Anchorage is a route where I often have to pay close attention to my payload in the summer when departing from Hong Kong, even more so when the winds mean I'm doing a rwy-31 departure from Kai Tak and need a sufficient climb-gradient to clear the high-rises and make the checkerboard turn (in reverse) to avoid losing terrain clearance on departure.

In a light/ GA aircraft it can be even more noticable as there's less power to work with, overload a small cessna and take off in scorching heat and you'll struggle to climb.

My point this is that this adds a lot to the sim flying experience of dealing with weather and how it affects your aircraft and subsequently your flight planning and operations. The problem with not having historical weather is that places where there is a big contrast between day and night temperatures (say, a desert, or Aus as mentioned previously) you subsequently don't get that when flying with live weather in a time-zone that doesn't match up.

Of course if that isn't your sort of thing, and the weather doesn't make much difference for your personal preferences, fair enough. The joy of flight sim is you get to do things your way!

But for those of us who use and enjoy that feature, I think there's a respectable argument for staying with P3D and Active Sky for the moment and also for advocating for the inclusion of such a feature in the other sim. It is a feature that can make a considerable difference, depending on what you value and seek from your own flying.

Just my 50 pence on this!

Edited by SimeonWilbury
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@SimeonWilbury I agree with and understand everything you said, no arguments at all, nor am I trying to "judge" anyone by how they use the sim.   To the contrary, whether someone takes historical weather and implements it for a future flight to match conditions to time of day (akin to what they would do in a real world simulator)  or takes the real world weather at that time and uses it we are all simulating and no one is right or wrong.  Some prefer the METAR to match what it is in the real world at that moment when they look out the window, some prefer it to match conditions more akin to the time of day they are flying in the sim.  Yes, even in the sim I've had to delay a departure because the temperature outside exceed my TOW unless I unloaded all my virtual passengers 🙂  With Ray's love of the Concorde the upper level atmospherics are just as critical as what's happening on the ground.  I get it, I totally do.  

I don't discount the need in certain circumstances for historical weather I just differed in opinion that you can't even consider serious IFR without it.  Forget about MSFS for a moment  I've been using P3D for what I "assumed" was "serious IFR" with Live Weather in ActiveSky for years and had some very IFR flights in MSFS.  Making a direct correlation that one is dependent on the other isn't technically correct and I read the comment that you can't do serious IFR without historical weather inaccurate regardless of sim platform.  Of course it can, just maybe not the way some users prefer. 

That's my .02 which I believe is still worth a lot less than 50p 😉   

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, psolk said:

I don't discount the need in certain circumstances for historical weather I just differed in opinion that you can't even consider serious IFR without it. 

You clearly missed my earlier post in which I said...

I didn't say ALL IFR flights. Just those involving departing from airports in time zones many hours away from my own. I don't want to fly with night time weather for a daytime flight.

That was purely to correct your statement. No further discussion required.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Time will tell. I couldn’t even consider using it for serious IFR flights unless it was available.

You stated nothing of the sort until questioned Ray.  This ^^^  is precisely what you said originally which I really hope you can understand how without the clarification you added after can be taken as a blanket statement that without historical weather you can't have serious IFR flights to which I responded that I disagree with a poor choice of words which I have since apologized for.  "Then" you clarified your comment and I clarified how I agree with the comment from Simeon within that context.

I kind of thought that was it until you came back to prove me wrong then state that "no further discussion is necessary." after you got your say in... 

 

Edited by psolk

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-Paul Solk

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15 minutes ago, psolk said:

You stated nothing of the sort Ray.  This ^^^  is precisely what you said which I really hope you can understand how without the clarification you added after can be taken as a blanket statement that without historical weather you can't have serious IFR flights to which I responded that I disagree with a poor choice of words which I have since apologized for.  Then you clarified your comment. 

 

I fail to understand why this is so important to you Paul. Are you such a nit-picker with everyone's posts? Just stop for God's sake.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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