Turbulence

[David_CSA 36]

First of all I honestly apologize for not reading all 15 pages. I was following this topic at the beginning, family and work means choices are to be made.

For the sake of completeness, allow me however to add my latest observations:

I am one of the people who complained a lot at the beginning about very severe jolts of turbulence AFTER SU9. The plane was and still is kicked around from side to side quite heavily. Flying was suddenly very different, not less interesting, but so different compared to what I have ever experienced in MS FS since FS4... Inevitably I started to doubt: What's this? Is it realistic? And why wasn't it happening after SU5, SU5, SU7...?? I do have one hour in real C172 close to Northampton, nothing more. But that hour was silky smooth. My suspicion grew even stronger after I selected "Clear Skies" and removed all wind layers. The plane was still subjected to severe sudden lateral forces.

But then I started to read your comments and explanations. I have a technical education but in a different industry than aviation. I always considered turbulence to be a sudden variation of wind. More like a gust. Simply the wind blows either 1 knot or 25 knots and if turbulence is present  then the wind speed oscillates either around 1 knot or around 25 knots. If the turbulence is mild then it varies from 24 to 26 knots, if it's strong then it varies from 15 to 35 knots. 

But your explanations started to paint a different picture: Temperature influence, thermals, influence of season and part of day.... I did realize that I fly now just in Caribbean (warm = bad for turbulence) and since I live in Europe but fly Live weather at night, it is afternoon and late afternoon in the Caribbean (even warmer = even worse for turbulence). That's why I flew and still fly not JPL C152 but a tin bucket which is kicked around by naughty boys...

Since the eureka moment (temperature, thermals) I had to have an evidence. I set up a test flight: Sion, Switzerland in the Alps, winter, early in the morning, but the same plane. The flight lasted for 1 hour and 30 minutes. During that time I did not experience ANY TURBULENCE AT ALL. That confirmed your explanations to me.

Now, am I complaining about the level of turbulence which is implemented in the sim e.g. in the Caribbean now? Well it depends and since I am not a RL pilot I can't make the call. If it's realistic, then please keep it. If it's overdone, please make it lighter.

Would I use the slider? Yes, I definitely would. Just to make my personal experience more consistent with the past 30 years behind the joystick. My gut feeling suggests I would set it to 50% when flying in the Caribbean in the afternoon again...

That's for my contribution to this topic.

[jcomm 5,890]

IRL a few of my collleagues have broken a canopy in their gliders due to incorrect use of the seat belts / harness...

A few weeks ago, flying on a rather good thermal day over Alentejo - Portugal, I almost experienced again that sensation because in order to be able to reach  the navigation device that I mount over the glareshield I easied the seat belts just a little, just when I hit a thermal downdraft and my hat collided rather energetically with the canopy 😕  - In that aspect, space in the cockpit, the Phoebus C is an awful glider which I can't understand because it's from the Era of the very first "plastic  gliders" but is German designed and built... Those guys are usually high ( and fat 🙂 due to the beer syndrome )...

Turbulence in a glider can hit you really hard, but  at the same time be "good news" about your progress aliong a task 🙂

Edited May 26, 2022 by jcomm

[Cpt_Piett 4,529]

18 hours ago, Captain747 said:

That's exactly what I was afraid of...no toggle/slider...which means that they are not interested in the least in satisfying the wishes of those of us who are annoyed by the ridiculous "turbulence" that they have added.  in other words this proofs that they could care less if it has totally ruined the vfr experience for some of us... what Asobo essentially  is communicating is..."those of you who are not satisfied with what we have implemented...too bad...then don't use the simulator"...of course not in those exact words...but that is the vibe that I am getting from them.

I’m not sure it’s as simple as “they’re not interested”. First of all, I really don’t think MS/Asobo would hang out here to pick up opinions from Avsim users. And I don’t frequent the MS forum very often, so I don’t know what’s being written there about this topic. I know they have this voting system to upvote certain topics. 

Anyway, turbulence seems to be highly subjective issue. I don’t think it’s a computer issue or anything like that. It’s just that we perceive it differently and it affects us differently. That’s why we can’t agree on the videos published here. Some perceive it to be extremely excessive and disturbing, whilst others (I’m more in the latter category), think of it more as mild turbulence. 

If I hadn’t had the experience of being thrown around in a light aircraft in RL, I might well had been in the “this is way too excessive” category. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Cpt_Piett

[Captain747 63]

I have seen "wish lists" in some places in which people put all that they would like to be implemented in the sim.

My question:

How can this wish to have an adjustable slider get on those so called wish lists?...how does that work?...or...where and how can I submit this wish?...

[MrBitstFlyer 3,830]

4 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Some perceive it to be extremely excessive and disturbing

I think those that are perceiving this excessive need to first take the view of the majority here that it isn't, then spend some time on YouTube viewing some cockpit videos in light aircraft.

If they just don't want any turbulence, then I'm all for a slider to adjust it.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,830]

1 hour ago, Captain747 said:

I have seen "wish lists" in some places in which people put all that they would like to be implemented in the sim.

My question:

How can this wish to have an adjustable slider get on those so called wish lists?...how does that work?...or...where and how can I submit this wish?...

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/ - during the next beta you could join and make your point for it to be considered.

There is a thread here from somebody who thinks the turbulence is too much.

Edited May 27, 2022 by MrBitstFlyer

[icewater5 181]

1 hour ago, Captain747 said:

I have seen "wish lists" in some places in which people put all that they would like to be implemented in the sim.

My question:

How can this wish to have an adjustable slider get on those so called wish lists?...how does that work?...or...where and how can I submit this wish?...

A)  I think there is a microsoft/community wish request thread at the official msfs 2020 forum. You could try that

B) I thought this feature/slider has already been asked for to Asobo (i might be wrong though)

C) You can set up a vote here on Avsim

D) Keep persisting Iff it means that much to you. I gave up on flight sim for six years because my joystick was recognised but i had no resistance/ffb  from it for a year and only a 3rd party programmer got it sorted out.

Edited May 27, 2022 by icewater5

[Captain747 63]

There is one thing that keeps boggling my mind though...

Lately I have been watching quite a few YouTube videos of people flying GA aircraft doing vfr at different world locations and sometimes they use the external camera to show the airplane and I notice that the airplane is really "flying on rails" as they say...super smooth...not an inch of turbulence!...and...by the looks of the weather its blue skies (maybe summer or spring)...also flying above land (not water)...and not as suggested to fly only at night or at dusk/dawn...or only in the month of January if you want to avoid turbulence.  So after watching several videos depicting 0 turbulence with super smooth and steady flights in all sorts of weather conditions...the same question keeps rising to me...how is that possible?...arent we all using the same simulator after all?...which means that it is true what a lot of people say on this thread that they don't understand those of us who are complaining because they are experiencing super smooth flights with absolutely 0 turbulence and the proof is all in the videos that i have been watching.

And for that reason I keep saying that something fishy is going on here...we are all "seemingly" using the same sim...yet still there are those who don't have this problem at all!...that for me defies all logic!...unless some one can come up with the million dollar answer.

[icewater5 181]

8 hours ago, Captain747 said:

.which means that it is true what a lot of people say on this thread that they don't understand those of us who are complaining because they are experiencing super smooth flights with absolutely 0 turbulence and the proof is all in the videos that i have been watching.

.we are all "seemingly" using the same sim...yet still there are those who don't have this problem at all!...that for me defies all logic!...unless some one can come up with the million dollar answer.

 

I am not a programmer so this is just a guess.

That said i honestly think that the variables between end users systems (hardware, software, drivers, OSs, add-ons, drivers and outdated drivers, 3rd party/community content) and other things are massive. Then different user expectations and perceived differences  (psychological factors).

It is brilliant what the developers/programmers have achieved and that these "variables"  are gradually being reduced as the simulator matures, compared to a year ago. But some are still there.

  

 

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by icewater5

[martinboehme 492]

13 hours ago, Captain747 said:

There is one thing that keeps boggling my mind though...

Lately I have been watching quite a few YouTube videos of people flying GA aircraft doing vfr at different world locations and sometimes they use the external camera to show the airplane and I notice that the airplane is really "flying on rails" as they say...super smooth...not an inch of turbulence!...and...by the looks of the weather its blue skies (maybe summer or spring)...also flying above land (not water)...and not as suggested to fly only at night or at dusk/dawn...or only in the month of January if you want to avoid turbulence.

Something to keep in mind is that, depending how high you fly, you're not always going to experience thermals (and hence turbulence) even if it's a sunny summer day. In high pressure fair weather conditions, it's common for an inversion to develop, and inversions are "thermal killers". Because the surrounding air gets warmer with altitude, the thermal will eventually not be any warmer than the surrounding air, and so it will stop rising. If you're flying above the altitude where this happens, you won't experience any thermals.

[Bobsk8 12,549]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:41 PM, David_CSA said:

in the Caribbean now? Well it depends and since I am not a RL pilot I can't make the call. If it's realistic, then please keep it. If it's overdone, please make it lighter.

Would I use the slider? Yes, I definitely would. Just to make my personal experience more consistent with the past 30 years behind the joystick. My gut feeling suggests I would set it to 50% when flying in the Caribbean in the afternoon again...

That's for my contribution to this topic.

Here is a suggestion, on a warm summer day, go to a Cessna flight Center and take a demo ride in a GA aircraft, might cost you around $50 today for about a 1/2 hour. Then you can judge if the turbulence in MSFS is realistic or not. 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Bobsk8

[Captain747 63]

Since this "turbulence problem" was added in SU9...I would assume that if one could theoretically "uninstall" SU9 from the sim...then at the same time you would be getting rid of the turbulence...only I am pretty sure there is no way to roll back or uninstall updates which means that we are pretty much stuck with the issue.

What if I completely uninstall the simulator...would I at the same time be uninstalling all the updates that were in it?...how does this work?...and even if all the updates were gone with an uninstall and then clean install...would the updates still automatically come back?...something tells me they would.

[Ikarus280 93]

1 hour ago, Captain747 said:

Since this "turbulence problem" was added in SU9...I would assume that if one could theoretically "uninstall" SU9 from the sim...then at the same time you would be getting rid of the turbulence...only I am pretty sure there is no way to roll back or uninstall updates which means that we are pretty much stuck with the issue.

What if I completely uninstall the simulator...would I at the same time be uninstalling all the updates that were in it?...how does this work?...and even if all the updates were gone with an uninstall and then clean install...would the updates still automatically come back?...something tells me they would.

It's best to not waste your time.

As much as I personally hate the forced updates breaking things in the sim, even if you were to completely uninstall the program and somehow install an older version offline, MSFS refuses to let you past the loading screen before it searches for updates and then forcefully installs them for you before being allowed to proceed. 

[Bobsk8 12,549]

1 hour ago, Captain747 said:

Since this "turbulence problem" was added in SU9...I would assume that if one could theoretically "uninstall" SU9 from the sim...then at the same time you would be getting rid of the turbulence...only I am pretty sure there is no way to roll back or uninstall updates which means that we are pretty much stuck with the issue.

What if I completely uninstall the simulator...would I at the same time be uninstalling all the updates that were in it?...how does this work?...and even if all the updates were gone with an uninstall and then clean install...would the updates still automatically come back?...something tells me they would.

And if SU9 made the turbulence more realistic, would uninstalling it get us back to flying on rails? 😉

[jimcarrel 688]

My only complaint about the current turb model is this exaggerated rocking from side to side. I don't remember any of that! The up and down seems okay, when (only time I was pilots seat ) I piloted a Warrior 2, it reminded me exactly of my dad's 18 ft bass boat running across Tenkiller Lake, throttle wide open, on a windy day. In my sim flights I get the gamut from  calm days to "what am I doing flying in this". No doubt it's not perfect, but if they toned down (a lot) the rocking, I'd be okay with it.