Numerous comments here that add nothing to a civilised discussion. I’ll be reviewing them in slow time and some posters may have a holiday.

Wind your necks in or you know the consequences.

LOL, another fun thread. Please don't close it Ray 😁

But seriously, the derogatory comments about the MSFS flight model by fans of X-Plane never ceases to amaze me. I use X-Plane and I was truly disappointed when I added full power on take off with the default C172. The excessive way in which it veered to the left was very disappointing having expected to be amazed by a superior flight model compared to P3D, which I also used at the time. Also, looking at that XP12 video in which Austin slams down the model of his own aircraft from way high up to the runway looked pretty arcade to me, kind of similar to the way some folks are flying their PMDG 737 in MSFS with reality set to zero.

Both games (yes, X-Plane is a game too) are flawed in many aspects. X-Plane is flawed as well, including the flight model. Calling it superior compared to other sims, or calling the flight models of other sims a joke is a joke in itself.

Not that it matters, but I'm a real world pilot 😎

23 hours ago, Chock said:

They look okay to me, you can even add the eyebrow windows to it if you like. Not sure if that's an option on the real things, but it looks cool.

Eyebrows would be nice to have in Zibo's model as they'd fit to early models without winglets and analogue backup instruments.

1 hour ago, Rimshot said:

LOL, another fun thread. Please don't close it Ray 😁

But seriously, the derogatory comments about the MSFS flight model by fans of X-Plane never ceases to amaze me. I use X-Plane and I was truly disappointed when I added full power on take off with the default C172. The excessive way in which it veered to the left was very disappointing having expected to be amazed by a superior flight model compared to P3D, which I also used at the time. Also, looking at that XP12 video in which Austin slams down the model of his own aircraft from way high up to the runway looked pretty arcade to me, kind of similar to the way some folks are flying their PMDG 737 in MSFS with reality set to zero.

Both games (yes, X-Plane is a game too) are flawed in many aspects. X-Plane is flawed as well, including the flight model. Calling it superior compared to other sims, or calling the flight models of other sims a joke is a joke in itself.

Not that it matters, but I'm a real world pilot 😎

Full throttle in c152/c172 will result in a sharp left as depicted in x-plane. This has been my experience in real life as well in every flight. Without a strong right leg, you will have sharp left.

Austin built the aircraft he was flying, he also mentioned that he was flying it "less safe" than in reality at the very same video you are talking about, to demonsrate it's capable performance. What you should ask is whether it's performance were real and assuming Austin knows his self built aircraft I will take his word, unless you data that proves otherwise.

Again, if x-plane was only a marketing hype flight model wise, why it is possible to build a prototype in x-plane, see that it can be safe based on whatever numbers x-plane suggests, and then fly it in reality...? It works, that is a fact, you can do whatever you want with it. Otherwise Austin was not flying his arcraft safely, Nor BETA Alia was a safe vehicle.

But of course it has flaws, otherwise there would be no flight model improvements.

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by mtaxp

5 hours ago, Rimshot said:

I use X-Plane and I was truly disappointed when I added full power on take off with the default C172. The excessive way in which it veered to the left was very disappointing having expected to be amazed by a superior flight model compared to P3D, which I also used at the time.

And keep in mind that even in XP11 the effect is LESS severe than it is in RL, as shown in this video.

Oh, no need to remind you that the effect is completely absent in FSX/P3D/Etc.

 

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by Murmur

4 hours ago, mtaxp said:

Full throttle in c152/c172 will result in a sharp left as depicted in x-plane

I know. But I used the word 'excessively' for a reason. Furthermore, regarding the quote below;

20 minutes ago, Murmur said:

And keep in mind that even in XP11 the effect is LESS severe than it is in RL, as shown in this video.

Oh, no need to remind you that the effect is completely absent in FSX/P3D/Etc

That effect is very familiar indeed. I always have to remind my students to keep the right foot active after leaving the ground 🙂 What I was actually implying was the excessive veering to the left on the ground when adding full power. I remember having to use a lot of right rudder to keep the plane on the centerline, much more than I would have to in reality. I don't even remember if this effect is modelled in FSX/P3D, it's been a while since I played these...

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by Rimshot

20 minutes ago, Murmur said:

And keep in mind that even in XP11 the effect is LESS severe than it is in RL, as shown in this video.

Oh, no need to remind you that the effect is completely absent in FSX/P3D/Etc.

 

Is that the FSX lady in the vid? What was her name now....I can't remember but I miss her.

11 hours ago, blingthinger said:

You seem to be perfectly happy with the other sheep!

Baaa!!!!!😃

2 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

I know. But I used the word 'excessively' for a reason. Furthermore, regarding the quote below;

That effect is very familiar indeed. I always have to remind my students to keep the right foot active after leaving the ground 🙂 What I was actually implying was the excessive veering to the left on the ground when adding full power. I remember having to use a lot of right rudder to keep the plane on the centerline, much more than I would have to in reality. I don't even remember if this effect is modelled in FSX/P3D, it's been a while since I played these...

Well, at least that's a constructive discussion! 🙂 I think the ground physics and the propwash/rudder in XP have been tuned several times in the last few years, so I don't know what version of XP did you try, it's possible that the effect was stronger than the current one.

Also, I wonder if the difference between staring at a monitor and actually being in the aircraft, with all the motory feedback, plays a role in the feeling of the amount of rudder needed.

3 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Is that the FSX lady in the vid? What was her name now....I can't remember but I miss her.

Martha King? Yes, the irony is that the effect was completely missing in FS9! But the included King's flight school was great!

18 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Martha King? Yes, the irony is that the effect was completely missing in FS9! But the included King's flight school was great!

Goodness me! That takes me back. Thanks for posting it. So is she still going strong? FS9? I feel so old.😀

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by jarmstro

20 minutes ago, Rimshot said:

I know. But I used the word 'excessively' for a reason. Furthermore, regarding the quote below;

That effect is very familiar indeed. I always have to remind my students to keep the right foot active after leaving the ground 🙂 What I was actually implying was the excessive veering to the left on the ground when adding full power. I remember having to use a lot of right rudder to keep the plane on the centerline, much more than I would have to in reality. I don't even remember if this effect is modelled in FSX/P3D, it's been a while since I played these...

From my experience and knowledge it happens on ground as well and it can be quite hard, one can veer of the runway, speaking (almost) from experience when I was a student as well 😅

What version of x-plane are you talking about? You may be right about one of the older FMs.

Edited May 19, 20224 yr by mtaxp

59 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Well, at least that's a constructive discussion

Well yes, that can happen! 😅

1 hour ago, Murmur said:

Also, I wonder if the difference between staring at a monitor and actually being in the aircraft, with all the motory feedback, plays a role in the feeling of the amount of rudder needed.

You're definitely right about that. Nothing compares to sitting in the real thing.

 

48 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

What version of x-plane are you talking about?

I'm not sure which exact version. I remember purchasing X-Plane a few weeks before the MSFS announcement.

On 5/18/2022 at 8:04 PM, blingthinger said:

Yeah the kickbacks for a free aircraft on the runner-up sim that isn't on xbox, are really worth the blood sweat and tears as well as reputation cost to lie about flight characteristics in front of coworkers and peers who also watch the videos.

He's an employed, type-rated pilot. He's tested both. He prefers Zibo for flight dynamics and general handling. Is anyone else with those credentials (who isn't on the PMDG 'tech team') doing a direct comparison like that?

Your accusation about his motives don't stand up to his reputation.

Yeah the fact his name is in the tablet is probably proof he is completely unbiased. I get it now, thanks.

2 hours ago, Rimshot said:

You're definitely right about that. Nothing compares to sitting in the real thing

I support your notion that the default C172 is incorrect in behaviour..

Observe the slip/skid indicator during normal climb attitude (image 1) and near upset attitude (image 2). Both at full power using zero rudder input.

IMAGE 1

IMAGE 2

Last image is just not right. Don't believe me? (after all I'm only a dumb private pilot who flies the C172S)....Just read this snippet from Aviation Safety article "Proper Rudder Usage" 
(bolded emphasize mine)

Quote

What I expected was for the pilot to first slow the airplane to liftoff speed and then apply no less than 65-percent power, followed by gradually pitching up to the wing’s critical AoA and stalling. Instead, the pilot applied full power and quickly jerked the yoke back fully with no right rudder pressure. With the slip-skid ball far to the right, an accelerated stall occurred while yawing left

I like X-plane, using it since 2005!  But the default Cessna 172S is not head and shoulders above other simulators default ones. Better? Perhaps but not by alot.