13 minutes ago, rka said:

Yeah we'll see about that.

Ortho is not free. It takes large amounts of download bandwidth (not free), storage (not free) and time (not free, mine at least). Also it's not exactly legal.

I know, I know...that's why I said "might". But I don't see what else there could be? Reshade may very well be unnecessary w/ the new lighting. Unless you want to push colors to less realistic levels.  Which I don't think is even an option w/ the vulkan shaders, is it? I can understand pumping the contrast, but LR devs have mentioned that will be addressed in v12.

Weather appearance is at least on par with MSFS. Weather model remains to be seen, so that might be a second need. I know some weather functionality will be open in the SDK. Giving 3rd parties access to weather puts XP ahead of MSFS to a degree.

Ortho download legality probably depends on the country you live in. Selling it is illegal without a license. Is it really illegal to download ortho imagery and make your own tiles for personal use? If there really is some small fine print somewhere, it will be right up there with ripping a Bluray disc that you personally own: nobody's going to come knocking on your door. Granted, I'm referring to "1st world" countries here...though if you live somewhere with that type of bandwidth, I'd wager you're going to be just fine. If internet access is a problem then you get to use default textures that look like FSX/XP11. Actually, XP12 will supposedly improve upon that a bit. So, v12 for the win again.

Downloading does take bandwidth but it's a once and done situation. With MSFS, you'll be downloading lesser quality ortho for as long as you use the product. Unless you open up the local cache to.....terabytes, just like in XP.

Disk space is cheap these days. If you have a computer that can run either of the programs in question, you can very likely afford the $50ish for a couple TB of spinning rust. So, there's $150ish in binge spending. 

Time? Yup..I agree. Ortho can be a royal pain to build.

1 hour ago, rka said:

Ortho is not free. It takes large amounts of download bandwidth (not free), storage (not free) and time (not free, mine at least). Also it's not exactly legal.

At nigth the downloadbandwidth is not used when i'm sleeping.

The upcoming of streaming services led to that 8 Tb of storage, that was used for recording movies, is now empty.

The batch system of ortho4xp makes it very easy with one setting to get a great among of orthos, during the night.

Orthos are illegal, but only when you want to sell it with your product. For private us not.

 

rka, all your arguments are pulled out of your nose

 

On 5/21/2022 at 5:18 PM, Bjoern said:

Most likely yes, unless they rely on third party plugins like an older version of SASL, which may stop working in XP12.

    I think its worth remembering, that aircraft built for XP10 very often require significant maintenance to work well in XP11, I dont think therefore I'm really saying anything I shouldn't when I say aircraft that fly perfectly in XP11 are going to be different - and therefore "not perfect" - in XP12. Austin has been a busy boy.

3 hours ago, rka said:

Also it's not exactly legal.

Depends on the ortho, the lvl16 cloudless ortho I use is based on the sentinel 2 dataset which is ccbync licenced and perfectly legal.

the USGS ortho by forkboy is based on public domain data and also 100% legit.

Lots of the others (e.g. UK data in the UK) is also fine

bing and google are slightly sketchy, in that they "may" break the end user licence in the less democratic and consumer unfriendly countries like many US states, in the same way you arent allowed to play a music CD or youtube music at your birthday party at home. not "illegal" - no one cares, but too risky to build a business around.

but google even says:

https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB_ALL/permissions/geoguidelines/

Generally speaking, as long as you’re following our Terms of Service and you’re attributing properly, you can use our maps and imagery. In fact, we love seeing creative applications of Google Maps, Google Earth and Street View.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by mSparks

Seems to me, there are quiet a few here, that may well be better off creating there own "perfect" sim. Seems they will never be satisfied. Seems having the right to complain for manym means they must. So sad coming here.

21 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Seems they will never be satisfied.

I personally hope LR is never satisfied with their sim, MS did that and we had 2 decades of FSX. May have been good enough for you, but I wanted something mooorrre.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by mSparks

26 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I personally hope LR is never satisfied with their sim, MS did that and we had 2 decades of FSX. May have been good enough for you, but I wanted something mooorrre.

Like I said, never satisfied.

Edited May 22, 20224 yr by mjrhealth

2 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

Like I said, never satisfied.

and that's why you have nice things.

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

but google even says:

Ironically, for me at least, The Google has been the quickest to ban my IP address. Though that was a few years ago. Maybe they've lightened up some since then.

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

and that's why you have nice things.

But im satisfied, even with 11. Was with FSX, will be with 12. Is why I have no scenery addons,

13 hours ago, mSparks said:

    I think its worth remembering, that aircraft built for XP10 very often require significant maintenance to work well in XP11, I dont think therefore I'm really saying anything I shouldn't when I say aircraft that fly perfectly in XP11 are going to be different - and therefore "not perfect" - in XP12. Austin has been a busy boy.

The only major issue I can think of when porting XP10 aircraft to XP11 is swapping out the GPS/FMS, but that's just a matter of minutes in PlaneMaker.

Note that I'm not defining "working" as "compliant". "Working" is defined as "aircraft loads and is usable in XP12, but may not fly as per the book values or exhibit other minor definciencies". "Compliant" is defined as "taking complete advantage of any new XP12 features, restoring correct performance and operation as intended by the original developer".

 

On 5/19/2022 at 5:22 PM, ark4diusz said:

https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/05/x-plane-12-development-update-may-19-2022/?fbclid=IwAR1uyxUnWuZvtLrMYOmxd8-Foty82YzhIGR9G7OQF4mWt7fjTRW7rJqQ2sE

Great news.

Looking forward to get our virtual crew kicking in that upcoming sim, just as they do in XP-11 & 10

6 hours ago, Bjoern said:

The only major issue I can think of when porting XP10 aircraft to XP11 is swapping out the GPS/FMS, but that's just a matter of minutes in PlaneMaker.

the most significant so far is

https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/03/x-plane-12-development-update-march-4th-2022/

Quote

• We are removing OpenAL from X-Plane. X-Plane itself hasn’t used OpenAL in years, and we are in no position to support it. Plugins that use OpenAL in X-Plane 12 will need to package OpenAL themselves.

In layman terms, any plugin that depended on the XP11 openAl imports for audio (most C based plugins) will fail with imports not found.

AFAIK the only solution to this is to recompile them with different imports - with the preferred method being to switch to FMOD for everything (Im going that route).

Aside from that, many default systems have changed the way they work, lighting has changed and flight model has some significant differences (all the stuff done for supersonic flight and wing delta).

This seems to imply - even if the plugins work (and old sasl and gizmo ones will at least need replacing with new versions), there is a good chance it will fly very differently to XP11 and have something about the lighting broken. Lot of w&b changes to, Austin mention that in his flight model stuff.

They are working very hard to minimise disruption, but I would expect the vast majority of XP11 aircraft to need at least some modifications to be as good in XP12.

At least from my experience, that was also true for XP10 aircraft in XP11, and XP9 aircraft need converting to XP10 before they can even be opened by XP11 planemaker.

So I'd summerise as XP11 to XP12 is very likely to suffer similar teething problems as XP10 to XP11. 

Dont see anything catastrophic, but planes will need to be built and tested for XP12 to work properly with XP12.

13 hours ago, mSparks said:

Dont see anything catastrophic, but planes will need to be built and tested for XP12 to work properly with XP12.

How likely is it that developers will update their planes for free? What generally was the case when XP10 was replaced with XP11?

2 hours ago, jarmstro said:

How likely is it that developers will update their planes for free? What generally was the case when XP10 was replaced with XP11?

Freeware guys - There are 962 XP10 aircraft on the org, 1610 XP11 aircraft. I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue for XP12.

Payware guys, don't really follow many of them, but Vskylabs is smashing it

https://www.helisimmer.com/news/vskylabs-level-up-sale-x-plane-12 

14 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Freeware guys - There are 962 XP10 aircraft on the org, 1610 XP11 aircraft. I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue for XP12.

Payware guys, don't really follow many of them, but Vskylabs is smashing it

https://www.helisimmer.com/news/vskylabs-level-up-sale-x-plane-12 

The developers I need to know about are Toliss, FF, Colimata, SSG etc. ie The airliner people.  I'll just write off my couple of Gizmo planes because I'm not going to have a 'new' version on my system.

Edited May 24, 20224 yr by jarmstro