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FSLabs and Fenix Sim Airbus A320's.

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50 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

The Fenix needs to be "flown" down on the runway with continuous stick and rudder input to keep it level and on centerline while decelerating.

Wow! Astonishing technique, I’ll have to try this myself. Let’s see....stick...rudder....yeah I think I might be able to pick this up!!!👍

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2 hours ago, MySound said:

Maybe I expected just more after all this hype.

Such as?

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54 minutes ago, 320Driver said:

I am positive about the Fenix, see my initial post in the thread. But there is a difference between just hyped and oversee anything, or being positive but still critical.

If you prefer an "all is good" attitude, then you may do so. I just don't get it how MSFS users just keep ignoring  problems?  When P3D has problems (it did and it does!!), it's the end of the world. But exactly that has lead to many better products. Now with MSFS the simmers landscape sadly has changed to this "all is good", even if it's worse than P3D.

However, interesting video ! Well, I see the flare mode and its need from the pilot perspective. In a conventional aircraft you pull the yoke back and as the nose drops, also as the speed is dropping, you need to keep pulling on the yoke to control the descent till touch down. In Airbus normal law stick out of neutral is a load factor demand. So when you flare by moving the stick back you ask for a load factor and the aircraft starts pitching to give you that, and will continue to pitch as long as the stick is out of neutral. So you will have to keep releasing the stick to neutral after each backward flare movement. This will not work well for the flare, so Airbus came up with the the flare mode where the auto trim stops and from 30' you get that pitch down. The pilot can now maintain steady backward pressure like conventional aircraft and continue to land. That's all about it.

The Fenix does currently not reflect that. It just doesn't feel like an A320 at that point.

I know how the Airbus flight control logic works, I have 3000 hours on type. That's why I asked if you were a pilot, your expectations don't seem to match mine. 

I see some (very minor) issues with the Fenix, but as it's been out for a few days I don't feel the need to even mention them. They've been raised and no doubt will be fixed. But even without them it'd still be the best 320 sim ever made (in my view), so I'm perfectly happy.

Edited by 2reds2whites
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7 minutes ago, Gate99 said:

Such as?

To be fair to MySound, sometimes people really do just try something new - even if they think they might not like it - as you can never truly be sure. I do it a lot with food, and have on more than one occasion ended up throwing it away and ordering something familiar afterwards.

I know a lot of us want to attack him for being so vague with his dismissal of the Fenix, but he did support the company and give it a go. That's worth at least something.

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Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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I'm surprised that FS labs want anything to do with an A320 series aircraft in MSFS. At the very least I would have expected them to keep their powder dry until the Fenix was out in the wild and they could properly see what they were up against. Instead they announced on May 12th that they would be bringing that aircraft to MSFS. 

I really have no problem if a developer wants to make the same aircraft, and there are new simmers joining the hobby every day who do not own any Airbus aircraft, so there will in theory be a market should your product compete.

The issue is how do they compete? The aircraft they will be competing against is arguably right now the finest and most complete home simulator experience in history (I don't begrudge the occasional small issue, but as a package). But that's not what FS Labs have to compete against. They have to compete against what the Fenix will become in the 12 months/18 months/24 months that it takes FS Labs to put forward their offering. The Fenix guys have just put forward a significant update after a day of being available, and it doesn't look like that pattern will change. Once Fenix has polished this release which is inevitably going to happen, what is it that FS Labs can do better? Can they make it cheaper? 

And if they can somehow make their new product better than the Fenix down the line, with it's free upgrades and constant improvements - are people going to pay more money for an incremental gain? 

But the bottom line for me is that Fenix have drawn a line in the sand. If I were a developer I would be saying 'that aircraft is done. It is an exceptional product right now and it is only going to get better.' 

Good on them if FS Labs want to try......... 

Edited by 2reds2whites
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@2reds2whites,

What update and how do we get it? Their website is barebones.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
Long quote removed and user tagged.

FAA: ATP-ME

Matt kubanda

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1 minute ago, ahsmatt7 said:

What update and how do we get it? Their website is barebones.

just open the Fenix app on your computer, top right corner. Go get it 🙂

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Just now, SAS443 said:

just open the Fenix app on your computer, top right corner. Go get it 🙂

Thanks foe the quick help! Really appreciate it.

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FAA: ATP-ME

Matt kubanda

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1 hour ago, 2reds2whites said:

I know how the Airbus flight control logic works, I have 3000 hours on type.

So you DO see the flare logic implemented ? If so, could you post of video of your landings ?

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3 hours ago, 320Driver said:

I can only encourage you and others to remain critical (as he does). And not hyped as many here. That makes blind. And as said before, use common sense (e.g. "would a real 320 behave that way during flare" ?)

You're right. It's good that we mention those things. But to claim the Fenix is nothing besides the Prosim simulation is just the opposite of remaining critical. It's blind ignorance.

Those dynamic air movmements that - agreeably - are overdone in MSFS are still better than those rails in P3D. At least in my opinion. Better to fine tune something than not having it.

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Happy with MSFS 🙂
home simming evolved

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1 hour ago, 320Driver said:

So you DO see the flare logic implemented ? If so, could you post of video of your landings ?

Can you comment on PMDG737, let's see how you to be fair on that one!

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On 5/21/2022 at 4:32 PM, mtaxp said:

  

Starting? He coming to every possible non MSFS forum (And not just one i.e. x-plane, all of them as well as p3d) to announce how much MSFS and every addon for it is successful and what an X Y Z YouTube captain said like a walking promotion around here for the last 2 years was not enough? 

@mtaxp, you realize our profiles are public and people can see where we last posted, right?

For everyone that is interested, check my last 100 posts and also check the last 100 posts of @mtaxp.  I made one post in the XP forums last week (Wednesday) and that's pretty much it for my last 100 posts.  Aside from my last post at the XP forum last week, I haven't really posted there for months.  Meanwhile @mtaxp, who is a devout XP user, posted in the MSFS forums here at AVSIM 30 times out of his last 100 posts.  @mtaxp's posts include derailing several threads here in the MSFS forum, and getting warned by a moderator for one of the threads he derailed.  

Seriously, @mtaxp, I think you need to do something more healthy than frequently spending almost 1/3 of your time here in the MSFS forums touting that XP is better than MSFS.  Yes, it's normal for users here to cross post in different simulator forums from time to time, even if they don't use that specific simulator.  But 30 posts out of your last 100 posts are here at the MSFS forums. You keep coming here to the MSFS forums, despite the fact that you continuously preach to us how XP is better than MSFS. That's not healthy, IMO.

Edited by abrams_tank
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i5-12400, RTX 3060 Ti, 32 GB RAM

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1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

@mtaxp, you realize our profiles are public and people can see where we last posted, right?

For everyone that is interested, check my last 100 posts and also check the last 100 posts of @mtaxp.  I made one post in the XP forums last week (Wednesday) and that's pretty much it for my last 100 posts.  Aside from my last post at the XP forum last week, I haven't really posted there for months.  Meanwhile @mtaxp, who is a devout XP user, posted in the MSFS forums here at AVSIM 30 times out of his last 100 posts.  @mtaxp's posts include derailing several threads here in the MSFS forum, and getting warned by a moderator for one of the threads he derailed.  

Seriously, @mtaxp, I think you need to do something more healthy than frequently spending almost 1/3 of your time here in the MSFS forums touting that XP is better than MSFS.  Yes, it's normal for users here to cross post in different simulator forums from time to time, even if they don't use that specific simulator.  But 30 posts out of your last 100 posts are here at the MSFS forums. You keep coming here to the MSFS forums, despite the fact that you continuously preach to us how XP is better than MSFS. That's not healthy, IMO.

I could have just ignored, but figured either way i'll be blamed for yet again another derail although it took more than 24 hours for you to make your investgations about me; And yet you forgot to mention that you are way more active with way more posts that me  although i'm in this site 7 years before you. So counting last 100 posts is not enough if you are trying to justify your assumptions about me.

Also, unlike you, I won't come to P3D forums to *open threads* i.e. about how low 3rd parties sell compared to MSFS, or what conclusions a youtuber came up with when talking p3d vs x-plane vs MSFS. Amazingly, you only do that when it fits your narrative. 

***But most importantly, and you did admit that, unlike you, I actually tried all of the simulators including MSFS so I speak about what I experienced***

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I can't compare to the FSLabs, but here's two things different to the ToLiss, which I loved flying in XP:

  • The ToLiss used to enter a steep descend when initiating the descend on cruise at T/D. It went down to about 4-5000 ft/min before recovering to about 2000ft/min. Generally it had a tendency to overshoot vertical constraints just a little. Don't know if it still does that currently. The Fenix however is very smooth with flight computers straight out of the gate. Feels like you experience it in real A320s.
  • The price of the Fenix (and probably subsequent MSFS addons) is either unbeatable, or devs won't make much money on other platforms. If you can get something like the Fenix for 60 bucks, it feels bad to spend 80+ for the same or even worse quality.
Edited by tweekz
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Happy with MSFS 🙂
home simming evolved

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Using FSlabs 320 on P3D. Very, very good.

FSlabs support really good with fast answer(!), but might seem somewhat arrogant with reagard to their forums - you have to use your real name otherwise you are blocked from forums.... And now as I am blocked, I cannot seek information how to solve problems with FSlabs/P3D.

Buying the Fenix, problem solved.

 

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