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@Simbol - Any further news on MP approval of the Sting S4?

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Yes, I could have PM'd @simbol but I figured if I posted it, we could all get news of any update on the Marketplace release of the Sting S4. ūüėé

I'm aching for this thing, and launching MSFS regularly purely to check the Marketplace ūüėĀ


Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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If it comes it will be on a Thursday. That's when updates and new addons are released. 

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We still waiting for the Market Place team to complete their approval process, not much I can do from my side.. but maybe you guys could go and ask Microsoft when / to hurry up? ūüôā

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/fsreborn-sting-s4/518583/15

Best,
Raul

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@simbolLooks great!

Any chance the S4 could soon appear on another platform to purchase, please? 
I don't want to use Market Place. 

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3 hours ago, F737MAX said:

@simbolLooks great!

Any chance the S4 could soon appear on another platform to purchase, please? 
I don't want to use Market Place. 

Are there any reasons to stay away from Market Place ? Does it matter if we buy a product there are from external source ?

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2 minutes ago, jfri said:

Are there any reasons to stay away from Market Place ? Does it matter if we buy a product there are from external source ?

I may be wrong, but the Market Place encrypts the files as part of the anti-piracy DRM.

What I think *may* happen is that when enhancement add-ons, like AILRP or GSX come along, we will need to access files of add-ons (as well as the base sim) to make small changes / edits / move them to separate locations in order for these as yet unreleased enhancement add-ons to work. We won't be able to do that if files are encrypted.
Just my 2 cents on this.


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31 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

I may be wrong, but the Market Place encrypts the files as part of the anti-piracy DRM.

What I think *may* happen is that when enhancement add-ons, like AILRP or GSX come along, we will need to access files of add-ons (as well as the base sim) to make small changes / edits / move them to separate locations in order for these as yet unreleased enhancement add-ons to work. We won't be able to do that if files are encrypted.
Just my 2 cents on this.

True, although it might be less of an issue for aircraft, especially if the developer has done a good job and they don't require much tweaking.
For scenery, I generally stay away from the Marketplace since encrypted files are not accessible by addons. This could be easily fixed by only encrypting files that contain textures or custom objects.


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My own reason for not preferring the Marketplace is simply that the system has proven really glitchy for me, when trying to make purchases.  Lot's of failed purchases, which then suddenly work after 6 attempts etc. 

However, Simbol (in another thread) has explained his reasons for opting to sell through the Marketplace only, and for his business and modus operandi, they are very justifiable, sensible reasons.

Certainly won't stop me buying the Sting, even if it takes a few attempts! ūüėĄ

  

7 hours ago, simbol said:

We still waiting for the Market Place team to complete their approval process, not much I can do from my side.. but maybe you guys could go and ask Microsoft when / to hurry up? ūüôā

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/fsreborn-sting-s4/518583/15

Best,
Raul

Raul,

I don't have an account on the MSFS forum but I've just posted an expedite request in the thread, from my son's Xbox account! ūüėĀ

Edited by JYW
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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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For the guys that were asking why MP only, I explained one of the many reasons here: https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/619044-sting-s4-round-the-world-parachute-deployments/page/2/

DRM handling is massive, to this day I am still clearing licensing keys for AI Lights Reborn Professional (P3D) when people change computers, etc. and I am not even selling more than 3 copies per month.. every-time someone activates AILRP for the first time I get charged $2 usd for DRM handling.. not to mention the difficulties and time it takes to code DRM protection, installers, etc.

Now some people argue DRM development is pointless, well folks that might be the case when you can sell million of copies of a product.. so for UBISOFT, Activision and such large firms piracy is a problem but not an issue, however for small companies such as my family business + operating on a niche market such as Flight Simulation, piracy it is a big problem.. I know 3rd party devs on this business where their products pretty much stops selling as soon as it gets pirated, and this can occur as fast as 24 to 72 hours after release! at which point and I quote, "they sold 4 copies in the last 3 months, after having around 70 copies daily".

So yea, it is a big issue.. so in order for me to to sell via other platforms, these platforms should provide some type of DRM protection out of the box, unfortunately so far none of them offer any despite the heavy percentage in royalty fees they charge.

Now since none of these platforms offer any DRM solution, I would have to engineer one myself (which is quiet challenging for MSFS).. alongside with an installer, etc. at which point then I am better off selling via my own website right, what's the point selling thru other platforms if I am building myself everything to distribute? however if I sell via my own website, I cannot reach the Xbox market since this is only possible via Market Place, so this means, I still would have to submit to MP as I just did right now anyway, so what would I have achieved? re-invented the wheel?, waste lots of time and resources and setup myself to support multiple ways of updating a product plus all the headaches to support DRM, installers, etc?.

Since more products will come this and next year,  I am building a business model that is more cost effective so I can keep on building new content instead of being stuck at support. This is very important when you are a small company such as me (Me and my wife), Flight Simulation is a business with diminishing returns, this means as time pass by, you receive less income from current products since the add-on's start to sell less, so unless you have a new product to sell, cash flow stops.. the key to success in the flight simulation industry is to keep innovating, provide great support and keep creating new content. Without these 3 key elements, you will go nowhere.

Therefore to keep those 3 standards as high as possible for FSReborn, at this point in time the best course of action is to deliver products via MP only, the benefit is for everyone over the long run. 

  • You buy the product once and it works on multiple PCs, Consoles, XCloud, anything where you install MSFS the product shows for you as "OWNED".. it is yours and you can install / uninstall as you please without having to contact me at any time.
     
  • When I push an update, you all receive it automatically. I only need to push it once.. done!. and you get it via all your devices with MSFS. Market Place team has enabled tools for us to update products faster, so don't be concerned about this, things are moving in the right direction, this helped me to weight more towards market place.
     
  • By having my products on MP it allows Asobo team to have access to them automatically, this means when I report an issue with the SDK, they can test it quicker on their HQ and even on Xbox consoles to provide help. (Not sure if you guys are aware, but we are unable to test on Xbox consoles our products our self's.. we depend on Microsoft market place team).¬†Think about the big advantage of this, not just for ME.. but for You too.. if I say to Asobo guys the function to reset the electrical battery doesn't work, check the Sting S4 and you will see a sample.. they will be able to replicate it quicker, fix the SDK and I will be able to improve and create better products in the future.. well not only me, all 3rd party devs as well.
     
  • If I am not wasting time dealing with DRM, licenses, installation issues, etc. what I am doing? Developing new things!

    Surely you want to see my upcoming M500 turbo soon right? I have also an Ultralight TL 3000 with floaters.. and also the TL 3000 with gears, planning both to be sold as a combo (2 x aircraft)  with more features than the S4 and I am aiming at the same price range.. and the only reason I can keep these low prices + high quality product is by reducing developing costs!.. no installer licenses, no DRM licenses (we devs have to pay for DRM licenses in many cases to use 3rd party solutions), no SSL certificates to handle the installers so they don't fail, no CDN (Content Delivery Network) costs, etc. If you are wondering what is CDN costs, well storing the files for products on the cloud cost money, think the gigabytes of data for all the updates, textures quality you guys love, etc. this increases the size of installers, updates, etc. and we get charged monthly to host things online, and the more we host? the more it cost, it scales very quickly.. unfortunately over time we sell less.. but we still have to pay the bills for DRM, CDN, SSL, etc. with costs that actually are not reduced.. they get increased with inflation...

    Microsoft doesn't charge us for the DRM handling, Installations, CDN, etc. they only charge their required royalty fees which are the same as the other platforms, but in my view I have much more added benefits with MS. 

So there you have it, as usual with my heart open and honesty.. this is why it will be MP only.

Now I understand some people might have some issues with MP, first time I read such comments to be honest, so what I suggest is that if you guys get lots of issues obtaining the S4 is to please make me aware of this so I can pass the feedback to the Market Place team in order to see what we can do to improve things. Without feedback of course we cannot improve stuff, so hopefully we can make things easier for everyone and keep my time focusing in building new exiting products for MSFS.

Once again thanks to everyone for the incredible support, on behalf of the FSReborn family thank you for all the kind words and feedback we have received after seeing the capabilities of what we can deliver, we will bring more! and more exiting things to all of you.. currently finishing something with Edson and Keven //42 which will delight many of you.. at the same time, M500 is coming along nicely and it has been rendered for the first time in MSFS :)

Love to everyone.
Raul

 

Edited by simbol
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Straight from the heart as always, Raul. God bless you, mate :wink:

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Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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Its good that the community understands the issues surrounding the MP, better that devs like Raul clearly explain the rational for selling there, and great that the community is not blaming or raging on him for his decision. ūüôā

Even though my focus is commercial airliners, the Sting will be a day one purchase for me, not only to support FSReborn, but to also pull the chute over the pyramids, land and balance on the tip of one of them!¬†ūü§£

I can only imagine day one on Vatsim if the majority of customers choose to fly her online.

"Mayday, Mayday, Mayday, November six two three fox delta engine out, deploying¬†chute"¬† x1000¬†¬†ūüėā

After a while, whenever a controller sees a Sting in his airspace, he'll just say "November six two three fox delta, just pull the chute whenever you want, no need to call Mayday, I'm taking you off my scope now, squawk 0000, have a nice floaty down"

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Regards,
Steve Dra
Get my paints for MSFS planes at flightsim.to here, and iFly 737s here
Download my FSX, P3D paints at Avsim by clicking here

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It's makes me wonder why every MSFS add-on developer out there doesn't follow Raul's logic? It makes perfect sense.


A pilot is always learning and I LOVE to learn.

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Just now, DJJose said:

It's makes me wonder why every MSFS add-on developer out there doesn't follow Raul's logic? It makes perfect sense.

Because not everyone has my logic? lol..

R.

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8 minutes ago, DJJose said:

It's makes me wonder why every MSFS add-on developer out there doesn't follow Raul's logic? It makes perfect sense.

Because not everyone thinks the default DRM is worth the downsides of MP ?

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Well tomorrow is Thursday (MP releases day apparantly?), I am praying to all known Gods, Buddhas and material scientists that someone in MS has hit the approve button and we'll see the Sting tomorrow! ūüėé


Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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